View Poll Results: Are gay people "abnormal"?

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  • Yes

    31 32.98%
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    63 67.02%
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Thread: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

  1. #851
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Heterosexuality is the main and normal orientation of the human species and has obvious benifits to our species.
    All of which is irrelevant in as far as proof goes. The words you use, "main" and "normal" have no value in your argument... unless you also want to claim that lefthandedness is a choice. As far as benefits go, again, heterosexual BEHAVIOR may qualify. Orientation does not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #852
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I believe we do, but over a much longer period of time. Every emotion we have other than the primal ones, result from thousands of "micro choices" throughout our lives. Because one doesn't think much about a choice, doesn't mean a conscious choice wasn't made. At the very minimum, we (as intelligent creatures) not only have control over how we deal with our emotions, but also how our emotions are instigated. This is why some people "fly off the handle" and some do not.
    Firstly, when it comes to sexuality, we ARE talking about primal emotions... so that is one point that negates your argument. Secondly, "flying off the handle" is a behavior, not an emotion. You are STILL confusing the two.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #853
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Simply put, you don't have to "buy it". It may very well be your impression that I am "dancing around" the issue, but I think it's more that in not being a trained psychologist, I'm not putting it in words you understand. You might try stepping away from your title for a minute and looking at it fresh.
    No, I don't think so. You have not indicated the initial formation of an emotion. Pretty much every example you have given denotes a behavioral choice, not an emotional choice.

    Please describe in detail the difference between an innate response and a compulsive response, then please tell me why compulsive disorders are not simply normal innate responses.
    No. Firstly... and you've debated me before, so you know how this works... you have STILL not answered my question on the formation of emotions. All of your answers have been about behaviors. Secondly, I am not discussing compulsive responses... and I'm not sure what you are referring to when you state "compulsive responses". Respond to my question and define "compulsive responses" and I'll give it a go.


    redacted.
    Which definition are you using here... "to put into writing" or "to remove"?
    Nor have you or anyone been able to prove that orientation other than normal is anything other than a choice. I fully admit and understand that I am not a clinical or reserach pshycologist...however, not legitimate clinical or research psychologist (or any other Dr.) has been able to prove it beyond "it may be the result of"
    The failure in this comment is the failure in all of your arguments on this topic. If you define normal in statistical terms, then your statement is no more valid than terming lefthandedness as a choice. If you define normal in one of the ways that YOU have defined it in the past, then it is your charge to demonstrate how heterosexuality is formed. Since you cannot discern any originating difference in assorted sexual orientations, your comment above is invalid.

    See mac, you cannot separate heterosexuality and homosexuality unless you can describe the origination of the former. Since you cannot do that, your argument in this matter will always fall short.

    No you're not, except perhaps you're right that agreeing to your perspective would sink my argument. The problem is, I don't agree with your perspective. If you weren't so convinced in your own perspective, you'd see that difference.
    You argreeing with my perspective is irrelevant to the fact that everything that I said is correct. You not agreeing is you not agreeing with logic. If that's how you want to go, OK.



    Nor have you, I'm afraid it boils down to a difference of opinion. You know full well you can not prove that orientation is anything other than choice, just like I can't prove it is.
    See, thing is, that is not my objective. I have no idea what percentage of one's orientatation is choice and what percentage is not... and I have been consistently clear on this position. However, what I can show, from a logical standpoint and from an evidenciary standpoint... and have consistently, is that there is no difference between the states of homosexuality and heterosexuality. And THIS is the point that you cannot and have been unable to refute.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #854
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You actually make a very good point there. Some people just don't know how to handle themselves in a debate. So you win by default. But Redress's sloppy debate skills do not make your position correct.

    The thing you don't understand about survival of the fittest is what it means in terms of Darwinian theory. "Unfit" genes are the ones that don't get passed on. So, by definition, anybody passing on their genes is "fit." You're making the same mistake as the social darwinists, and that's the sort of ugly thinking that leads to eugenics. Social darwinism has been roundly debunked, and it is a superficial understanding of true evolutionary theory.
    I understand what you're saying, and I understand what he's saying, I'm not making a valid argument for social Darwinism (not even trying to), just an off-hand point. To be completely honest, I need to do some reading so that I can present it better.

    A better example of the point I was making is support of the mentally and physically disabled. Legal disclaimer: I in no way think that we shouldn't support them.
    Last edited by mac; 05-08-11 at 09:20 AM.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Firstly, when it comes to sexuality, we ARE talking about primal emotions... so that is one point that negates your argument. Secondly, "flying off the handle" is a behavior, not an emotion. You are STILL confusing the two.
    Ok, "the urge to" fly off the handle. More clearly put to you?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    No, I don't think so. You have not indicated the initial formation of an emotion. Pretty much every example you have given denotes a behavioral choice, not an emotional choice.



    No. Firstly... and you've debated me before, so you know how this works... you have STILL not answered my question on the formation of emotions. All of your answers have been about behaviors. Secondly, I am not discussing compulsive responses... and I'm not sure what you are referring to when you state "compulsive responses". Respond to my question and define "compulsive responses" and I'll give it a go.




    Which definition are you using here... "to put into writing" or "to remove"?


    The failure in this comment is the failure in all of your arguments on this topic. If you define normal in statistical terms, then your statement is no more valid than terming lefthandedness as a choice. If you define normal in one of the ways that YOU have defined it in the past, then it is your charge to demonstrate how heterosexuality is formed. Since you cannot discern any originating difference in assorted sexual orientations, your comment above is invalid.

    See mac, you cannot separate heterosexuality and homosexuality unless you can describe the origination of the former. Since you cannot do that, your argument in this matter will always fall short.



    You argreeing with my perspective is irrelevant to the fact that everything that I said is correct. You not agreeing is you not agreeing with logic. If that's how you want to go, OK.





    See, thing is, that is not my objective. I have no idea what percentage of one's orientatation is choice and what percentage is not... and I have been consistently clear on this position. However, what I can show, from a logical standpoint and from an evidenciary standpoint... and have consistently, is that there is no difference between the states of homosexuality and heterosexuality. And THIS is the point that you cannot and have been unable to refute.
    If homosexuality and heterosexuality were "the same" or "on the same footing" than it stands to reason that the would present in more equal numbers than they do. You can't show that people are born homosexual so the possibility that they are not is valid. Lastly, it is not my objective to prove anything either, but to explore the subject.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Firstly, when it comes to sexuality, we ARE talking about primal emotions... so that is one point that negates your argument. Secondly, "flying off the handle" is a behavior, not an emotion. You are STILL confusing the two.
    The urge to have sex is a primal emotion, the urge to have it with Joe or Jane is not.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #858
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The urge to have sex is a primal emotion, the urge to have it with Joe or Jane is not.
    This is what cannot be proven either way. You cannot prove that the urge to have sex with Joe rather than Jane is not primal, whatever the sex of the other person. Neither can those who believe that sexuality is something people are born with prove their position definitely, but at least our side has a few more things to support that it is something that a person is born with through studies and even personal experience.

    Most of that argument gets into the bigger nurture vs. nature personality argument that has been going on for a long time. Science has mainly set that it is a combination of both, but still argue about how much and which has the bigger influence.

    Nature vs Nurture - How Heredity and Environment Shape Who We Are

    But, since homosexuality isn't something that is harmful, especially not when the practice is done by such a small percentage of the population that it does not negatively affect natural birth rate to a point where the human population would likely become extinct if homosexuality were practiced exclusively in increasing numbers, then it shouldn't matter whether it is because of nature, nurture, or a combination, nor should it even matter if it is a conscience choice.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaaaman View Post
    Is this not an opinion board?
    As long as your opinions are not, baiting, flaming, or offensive to other posters.

    Your opinions are offensive to me. IMHO, they represent the type of fear-based bigotry holding this country back from the next era of greatness.

  10. #860
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    Re: Are Gay People "Abnormal"?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    This is what cannot be proven either way. You cannot prove that the urge to have sex with Joe rather than Jane is not primal, whatever the sex of the other person. Neither can those who believe that sexuality is something people are born with prove their position definitely, but at least our side has a few more things to support that it is something that a person is born with through studies and even personal experience.

    Most of that argument gets into the bigger nurture vs. nature personality argument that has been going on for a long time. Science has mainly set that it is a combination of both, but still argue about how much and which has the bigger influence.

    Nature vs Nurture - How Heredity and Environment Shape Who We Are

    But, since homosexuality isn't something that is harmful, especially not when the practice is done by such a small percentage of the population that it does not negatively affect natural birth rate to a point where the human population would likely become extinct if homosexuality were practiced exclusively in increasing numbers, then it shouldn't matter whether it is because of nature, nurture, or a combination, nor should it even matter if it is a conscience choice.
    You can't prove anything any more than I can.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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