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I don't know any details about the tattoo. What was it?
It was the typical lesbian tatoo so my wife tells me
I don't know any details about the tattoo. What was it?
It was the typical lesbian tatoo so my wife tells me
Interesting. So you really do not know whether or not people can choose who they find sexually attractive or arousing?
Why do you choose to define homosexuals by their behavior instead of by how they feel?
Do you believe that the factors of sexual attraction and arousal are irrelevant to a person's sexual identity?
But you do?
In fact, I do. There are many things that are learned and cause arousal. In some cases, things that are not even sexual in nature. Perfume, for example.
I've tried to be heterosexual. It didn't work.
Wouldn't that be a paraphilia?
I notice because I am, and I further note what kind of pen they're using. Being close to the problems lefties deal with every day makes me sensitive to it. I imagine that if I were right handed, that writing in general would be a non-issue, and I probably might not notice left handers.
I beleive I allready did. The manner in which someone writes is indicitive of how they think. If they are "putting on airs" I choose to not read them. It's not that I can't read them, its not that I can't get something from the writing...I choose not to read them because I've learned that the way they write is reflective of attitudes I dislike. Attitudes, by the way, that have no direct impact on my life. It's a choice because I could live with, or without it.
I think pedophilia is still considered a disorder (at least I hope it is). I don't know that the failure of treatment makes it any less a choice though, exfept perhaps if you consider addiction beyond choice. In my view, addiction is a result of choices made....and so is still a choice for this purpose.
Yes.
.......
No, I'm not. Not really.
Reading this thread makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall.
Folks like myself just make sure we're in a padded room first eace
You're doing it again. Confusing a state/preference with a behavior. One can be an addict, but not act or CHOOSE to act on that state.
Why do you dislike those attitudes? Please describe in detail how this dislike was/is formed.
That's absurd, mac. You're doing what you did a month ago when you were asked to define "natural". You are not being honest in your debating.
We are talking about feelings and desires, things that are inherant or unconscious, things that one cannot control.
You are not stupid... you know this.
What you are REALLY talking about are behavioral responses to these feelings and/or desires.
You are doing this, similar to that past debate, because admitting that one has no choice over their feelings would sink your argument.
Here is the argument in brief:
1) A person has no choice over what they feel. These are unconscious and inherant emotional reactions, and include enjoyment/disgust of certain flavors, smells, sounds, etc...
2) A person has a choice over how they respond to these emotions... or whether they respond at all.
CC, I'm quite beginning to think that you feel we are not two people having a discussion. It really does appear you consider yourself to be in the role of Professor here.
As I've said before, I believe there are factors affecting all the choices we make and the people we become. Some of these factors are sub-conscious and some are not. Ultimately, though, we have control over the people we become.
Reading this thread makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall.
That's not true at all, and I am being completely honest about how I think. I don't buy that one has no control over how they feel, further: sub-conscious responses are really learned reactions ingrained to the point where they occur without conscious thought.
This is absurd. Unless some sort of compulsive disorder is attached, everything that we feel and desire is a result of many hundreds of learned ideas....any of which may be altered along the way.
Nor are you, from what I've seen.
At times I am, at times I am not. When asked about actions I am, when asked about orientation I am not. I fully understand the difference, I simply do not agree with your position that ones orientation other than normal is beyond ones control.
BS, man, sorry.
I disagree with 1, and agree with 2.
which is worse, this or as if in the "is everyone a little bit gay" thread?
To have so much that it would not matter ... and the people would sit in wonder ahhhhhh
Nope. Just asking you to clarify. You have not yet been able to describe how you choose an emotion, so I am trying to word my questions in such a way as to have you decribe this. You've been dancing around this issue, so I am attempting to word my comments so as you will stop dancing.
So, again, you are saying that we have control over how we respond to these emotions/stimulus. Do you believe that we choose these emotions/stimulus?
I don't buy it, simply because you have been avoiding the issue. You claim that you can choose your emotions, yet you offer no evidence of this, nor can you describe the process of how an emotion is formed. Describe exactly how you chose to like a food you like. You can describe eating it, deciding that you liked it and wanted to eat it again. You can describe what it is that you like about it. But you cannot descibe how that initial moment of enjoyment is formed. You are dancing around this.
No, that is inaccurate. Liking or not liking something, at it's essence is an unconscious impulse. The secondary rationalizations and realizations may be responses to learned behaviors/ideas, but the initial impulse is innate and not something you can control.
This is accurate.
This does not fall into the morality piece that we are discussing in the other thread. This is not an opinon, but something factual/logical. You have still never been able to prove that either orientation is not a choice and you have been unable to demonstrate any difference between the feelings that one has between the two orientations. Unless you can demonstrate that the process of emotional attachment is different for gays than it is for straights, your opinion on this matter valueless since it has no substantiation and is not logical.
Nope. I'm right on target.
You can disagree all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that you cannot and have not proven your position. An individual's emotions are innate and not chosen. The response to these emotions can be chosen and altered. This is the issue that you are arguing against and you have been unable to prove that it is incorrect.
I believe we do, but over a much longer period of time. Every emotion we have other than the primal ones, result from thousands of "micro choices" throughout our lives. Because one doesn't think much about a choice, doesn't mean a conscious choice wasn't made. At the very minimum, we (as intelligent creatures) not only have control over how we deal with our emotions, but also how our emotions are instigated. This is why some people "fly off the handle" and some do not.
What lead you to the conclusion that homosexuality is chosen while heterosexuality is not?