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  • It helps the economy.

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Thread: Government stimulus

  1. #91
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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by garb View Post
    So you're saying that capitalism can operate effectively with little or no capital? Not trying to be a smart***, I'm just trying to figure out where you're coming from, becuase your position really seems self-contradictory.
    His position would be somewhat accurate if he were only referring to manufacturing jobs, and even then, it isn't correct unless reworked.. he has never owned a business, clearly??

    When things are made, they need to be sold to someone, just look at Apple's success. Demand is thus manufactured, and in-turn has the effect of increasing manufacturing jobs to keep up. Redress is right if the model he relies on is the current system. Problem is that it doesn't work that way. Demand isn't something that manufacturers create, or affect, it begins always at the consumer level, and that is accimplished by salesmen, and through marketing.


    Tim-
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  2. #92
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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Bakken is one formation; according to your own link another such (the Green River) has been estimated at about 1.5 Trillion; though only 800Bn was estimated to be recoverable. and on top of that we also need to open up our West Coast, Alaska, near waters in the Gulf, and the East Coast to drilling. in addition, we need to allow the building of more refineries.

    we are the only nation currently stupid enough not to tap our own natural resources, and it is costing us. we have huge untapped resources here, and in a time seemingly laggardly growth for the next decade plus high unemployment and rising energy prices, it makes no sense not to engage in an activity that would help with all three of those problems.
    Actually, according to my friend who is doing a lot of business in China, China uses NONE of its own natural resources if possible.

    The logic is that eventually these things are going to run out, and then China will still have most of its own resources intact. Giving them an inherent advantage in the fierce competition that will certainly accompany these shortages.

    Good news though. Evidently they decided not to be overwhelmed by angry peasants and included them in the general economic boom. He says a couple more increases in the minimum wage over there combined with skyrocketing transportation costs should greatly reduce the incentive to offshore manufacturing.

    Maybe some of those jobs WILL come back.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  3. #93
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    Re: Government stimulus

    [QUOTE=cpwill;1059436556]
    yeah. again. we stupidly decided to cut off our production. and again, i don't want to produce 100% of the oil we consume - that's not the goal. boosting production, GDP, employment, revenue, and lowering energy prices is.

    Thank you for finally admitting we passed peal oil in this country in 1971.


    i'm thinking this chart doesn't have the ability to predict the future any more than anyone else.
    Its not predicting the future, it is being aware of the bell curve in oil production and the fact that the world is getting close to having more demand than supply, just as we did here in this country in 1971.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by Dezaad View Post
    Stimulus helps the economy during recession, and hurts the economy during growth.
    How do you figure?

  5. #95
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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Thank you for finally admitting we passed peal oil in this country in 1971.
    nope. but it is irrelevant.

    Its not predicting the future, it is being aware of the bell curve in oil production and the fact that the world is getting close to having more demand than supply, just as we did here in this country in 1971.
    gee wiz, then good thing for us we're sitting on the worlds' largest energy supply, eh? We will be able to take advantage of rising demand to boost our economy.

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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    gee wiz, then good thing for us we're sitting on the worlds' largest energy supply, eh? We will be able to take advantage of rising demand to boost our economy.
    Proof of this mystery supply? You do realize that Peak oil does not mean the end of oil, it means the end of cheap oil. Because your mystery supply of oil doesn't seem to be having any effect on lowering oil prices that I have noticed. Perhaps you should call the oil companies and the military and let them know about it so they can retract their warning that peak oil may occur as soon as 2015.
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-28-11 at 11:39 AM.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Government stimulus


  8. #98
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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Actually, according to my friend who is doing a lot of business in China, China uses NONE of its own natural resources if possible.

    The logic is that eventually these things are going to run out, and then China will still have most of its own resources intact. Giving them an inherent advantage in the fierce competition that will certainly accompany these shortages.
    Great plan, but long-term thinking has not been a part of the US energy plan since 1980. We do do much better with short-term greed which is why China is gaining on the US.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Government stimulus

    Does moving the goal post to gas mean you have given up trying to disprove the US Military's public warning that we are approaching peak oil? Do you have a source to link that disprove's the US military claim?

    On to your new goal post:

    U.S. Forecasts 42% Jump in LNG Imports in 2010, Says Supply May Go Higher



    "U.S. imports of liquefied natural gas may rise 42 percent in 2010 to approximately 1.76 billion cubic feet per day, the Energy Department forecast today in its monthly Short-Term Energy Outlook.

    The latest estimate for 2010 imports was 2.2 percent lower than the previous forecast. The department’s Energy Information Administration last month predicted imports of 1.8 billion cubic feet per day.

    “While EIA currently expects U.S. LNG imports to increase by about 0.5 Bcf/d this year over last, the failure of global demand to keep pace with increased global supply could lead to even higher U.S. LNG imports than currently forecast,” the department said in the report. "
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #100
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    Re: Government stimulus

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Great plan, but long-term thinking has not been a part of the US energy plan since 1980. We do do much better with short-term greed which is why China is gaining on the US.
    actually i'd like to see some documentation of the claim that China doesn't take advantage of her natural resources.

    but you are correct, we haven't had a very smart energy policy for decades. time to start building new refineries, drilling off both coasts, and in Alaska to remedy that failure.

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