View Poll Results: Utilitarianism

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • A good moral philosophy

    4 30.77%
  • A bad moral philosophy

    4 30.77%
  • Good and Bad, depending on the circumstance

    5 38.46%
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: Utilitarianism

  1. #1
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Utilitarianism

    I never looked very deeply into this philosophy before, but after spending a few days reading, I am finding it pretty much describes my own approach to moral reasoning (even though I attach my own twist to it and my goal isn't primarily hedonistic).

    Anyway, from your point of view, is this a valid moral approach and why (not)?

    Utilitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-23-11 at 05:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I never looked very deeply into this philosophy before, but after spending a few days reading, I am finding it pretty much describes my own approach to moral reasoning.

    Anyway, from your point of view, is this a valid moral approach and why (not)?

    Utilitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I typically define my economic arguments using utilitarianism, but I do not step away from my belief principles if the two come into conflict.

    It's more of a tool for me, than a philosophy I follow.

    Edit: This isn't a criticism of you but it can be immoral for some people depending on belief.
    Would you sacrifice 1 to save 1000, some would say that you choosing to sacrifice 1 is immoral and that doing nothing is the better choice.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 04-23-11 at 05:57 PM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  3. #3
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I typically define my economic arguments using utilitarianism, but I do not step away from my belief principles if the two come into conflict.

    It's more of a tool for me, than a philosophy I follow.

    Edit: This isn't a criticism of you but it can be immoral for some people depending on belief.
    Would you sacrifice 1 to save 1000, some would say that you choosing to sacrifice 1 is immoral and that doing nothing is the better choice.
    To clarify, if 1 were to die vs 1000, it would depend on a lot of factors (were those 1000 violent criminals (or something as bad) who would likely have a bad effect on society, were those 1000 going to die from cancer in a month, etc), however, if all things were equal and the situation was of acute danger (and for some strange reason it was up to me, but I hope to never have to make such a choice), than I probably would. The equation would dictate it. Think of the general who has to decide which people are going to die, he is going to try and minimize his losses in balance with the needs of the mission.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-23-11 at 06:12 PM.

  4. #4
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    To clarify, if 1 were to die vs 1000, it would depend on a lot of factors (were those 1000 violent criminals (or something as bad) who would likely have a bad effect on society, were those 1000 going to die from cancer in a month, etc), however, if all things were equal and the situation was of acute danger, than I probably would. The equation would dictate it. Think of the general who has to decide which people are going to die, he is going to try and minimize his losses in balance with the needs of the mission.
    I understand, it's really a false dilemma of a question but merely a simple example.

    Utilitarianism can be good but then again it can be bad, depending on what sphere you place it in.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #5
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I understand, it's really a false dilemma of a question but merely a simple example.

    Utilitarianism can be good but then again it can be bad, depending on what sphere you place it in.
    Yeah, and unfortunately, its a very complicated question, even if it doesn't seem so on the surface. When dealing with that many people, there are a lot of individual factors that no person can reasonably weight, so in those situations, assumptions have to come into play. But in the end, I don't think that really takes anything away from the philosophy. At least not more than any other since they all face that same problem, so its a wash.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-23-11 at 06:16 PM.

  6. #6
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Yeah, and unfortunately, its a very complicated question, even if it doesn't seem so on the surface. When dealing with that many factors, there are a lot of individual factors that no person can reasonably weight, so in those situations, assumptions have to come into play. But in the end, I don't think that really takes anything away from the philosophy. At least not more than any other since they all face that same problem, so its a wash.
    That's really why I use it as a tool, rather than as a philosophy.
    It's goods are definitely worth thinking about and using.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #7
    Guru
    Morality Games's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Iowa
    Last Seen
    05-24-16 @ 10:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    3,733

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I never looked very deeply into this philosophy before, but after spending a few days reading, I am finding it pretty much describes my own approach to moral reasoning (even though I attach my own twist to it and my goal isn't primarily hedonistic).

    Anyway, from your point of view, is this a valid moral approach and why (not)?

    Utilitarianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Utility is an important aspect of morality, but I think consequential moral philosophies can be misleading. For one thing, the conceptual elaboration they provide isn't necessarily informative. Either they overlook the importance of personal truths or overload themselves with so many qualifications acknowledging personal truth that in the end they come across as evil or non-consequential.

    For one thing, utilitarianism is an egalitarian philosophy which traditionally posits a universal standard of happiness. In truth, there are multiple kinds of happiness which are evaluated differently among diverse personality types. That's not the end of consequentialism as such, but it challenges whether utilitarianism as traditionally defined is an effective solution to the dilemmas of human conscience.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 04-23-11 at 06:23 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

  8. #8
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's really why I use it as a tool, rather than as a philosophy.
    It's goods are definitely worth thinking about and using.
    I suspect we do things in opposite order, based on our conversations. You tend to put principals before end goals and motive (per motive, I think you made a comment once that empathy and compassion have a proper (meaning not being primary) place) while I tend to put motive and goals as my primary and derive my principals from that.

    This fundamental conflict is probably we can't see eye to eye on a lot of other fundamental questions (like my neutral stance on self interest against your positive stance)

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    Utility is an important aspect of morality, but I think consequential moral philosophies can be misleading. For one thing, the conceptual elaboration they provide isn't necessarily informative. Either they overlook the importance of personal truths or overload themselves with so many qualifications acknowledging personal truth that in the end they come across as evil or non-consequential.
    Can you give an example?
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-23-11 at 06:22 PM.

  9. #9
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I suspect we do things in opposite order, based on our conversations. You tend to put principals before end goals and motive (per motive, I think you made a comment once that empathy and compassion have a proper (meaning not being primary) place) while I tend to put motive and goals as my primary and derive my principals from that.

    This fundamental conflict is probably we can't see eye to eye on a lot of other fundamental questions (like my neutral stance on self interest against your positive stance)
    Pretty much, I believe my principles have a "natural" utilitarian effect.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  10. #10
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Utilitarianism

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Pretty much, I believe my principles have a "natural" utilitarian effect.
    Whereas I see many principals going ending up producing some rather evil effects when done in aggregate. Individualist philosophies (and to be honest all philosophies, but to a lesser degree (assuming one is taking human nature into account, otherwise all bets are off) tend to have problems with this.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-23-11 at 06:36 PM.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •