View Poll Results: When it comes to the debt ceiling, should the government:

Voters
14. You may not vote on this poll
  • Raise it. Debt is not a problem.

    0 0%
  • Default on our debt. Better to declare bankruptcy than cut spending.

    0 0%
  • Cut non-essential spending until we can meet our current obligations.

    14 100.00%
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Thread: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

  1. #1
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    Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Obama and Democrats are acting like there are two choices: increase the debt ceiling or default on our debt and basically declare national bankruptcy. These two choices are dishonest. There is a third choice. We can cut spending for non-essential programs, cowboy poetry festivals, turtle bridges and skate parks, superman capes for the unemployed, NPR, planned parenthood, the war in Libya, etc and cut spending enough to meet our current debt obligations.

    The government is like a man in a 5,000 sq ft home with premium cable channels, eating filet mignon for breakfast lunch and dinner, driving five nice cars, with a lawn service, pool service, weekend hookers, and every gaming system known to man claiming that if we don't let him open another credit card to pay the minimum balance on his current card he will either have to declare bankruptcy or choose between taking his medication or eating.

    Are those really the options?
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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    I don't see how the second option is a good idea.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Obama and Democrats are acting like there are two choices: increase the debt ceiling or default on our debt and basically declare national bankruptcy. These two choices are dishonest. There is a third choice. We can cut spending for non-essential programs, cowboy poetry festivals, turtle bridges and skate parks, superman capes for the unemployed, NPR, planned parenthood, the war in Libya, etc and cut spending enough to meet our current debt obligations.

    The government is like a man in a 5,000 sq ft home with premium cable channels, eating filet mignon for breakfast lunch and dinner, driving five nice cars, with a lawn service, pool service, weekend hookers, and every gaming system known to man claiming that if we don't let him open another credit card to pay the minimum balance on his current card he will either have to declare bankruptcy or choose between taking his medication or eating.

    Are those really the options?
    Maybe people complain about the government but they are just a sympton of the real problem which is the people, its the people who overwhelmingly do not want to cut spending, or if they do want to cut something cannot put partisanship aside long enough to compromise with someone who wants to cut something else.

    Until debt reduction becomes more important than getting what you want from the government, its just not going to happen. People need to say "Hey I really like this medicare, social security, and defense spendng among a million other things" but there just isn't money for it. We're no different than say the Greeks for example, although I hope our protests won't be so violent, the gov't literally defaulted and people still rioted because the gov't couldn't provide what they wanted. Its like rioting because the gov't can't turn lead into gold, it just aint gonna happen.

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't see how the second option is a good idea.
    Its not, it only appeals the super wealthy that have enough money not to have to worry about anything.
    That is what this entire teaparty thing is about...its about the rich taking more money and power from the people. It didnt start out that way thats why the had the support from the working class and baby boomers...but especially since Nov2nd its become evident what they are all about.
    On nov2nd I voted straight republican...I voted for Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, and Ted Nugent...Scott was a mistake and so my jury is still out on Rubio and Nugent...rubio has been eerily silent since nov2nd, I believe hes taking the florida old farts pulse and ted nugent is a nice guy desparately trying to sell Ryans plan and hes failing

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Personally, I am in favor of a combination of selective tax raises (where the pain is minimized) and cuts (where the pain is minimized).

    Someone's ox has to be gored by this, so we should do it where the least harm occurs. This, for me translates to the following actions.
    Taxes:
    1. Let the tax cuts expire for the wealthiest among us
    2. Let maybe half or one-fourth of the tax cuts expire for the middle class
    3. Keep any tax cuts for the poor

    Spending
    1. Cut any government services that are duplicated among different agencies (I think a study suggested this could be the tune of 250billion per year)
    2. Cut nonessential business subsidies
    3. Cut into entitlement programs & DoD

    I didn't provide specific numbers as this is more of a priority list and for me the numbers would be "keep doing it until the deficit is 0" Then pass a balanced budget amendment that would allow for emergency overspending but would require something like 80% support in both houses with a straight up or down vote (no parliamentary tricks allowed), meaning we would pretty much have to have a war or major disaster to convince enough people to open the purse strings, given our culture. As for the existing debt, I would let natural economic growth and the fact that pretty much all of this debt has a scheduled paydown period take care of that.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-21-11 at 09:54 AM.

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Personally, I am in favor of a combination of selective tax raises (where the pain is minimized) and cuts (where the pain is minimized).

    Someone's ox has to be gored by this, so we should do it where the least harm occurs. This, for me translates to the following actions.
    Taxes:
    1. Let the tax cuts expire for the wealthiest among us
    2. Let maybe half or one-fourth of the tax cuts expire for the middle class
    3. Keep any tax cuts for the poor

    Spending
    1. Cut any government services that are duplicated among different agencies (I think a study suggested this could be the tune of 250billion per year)
    2. Cut nonessential business subsidies
    3. Cut into entitlement programs

    I didn't provide specific numbers as this is more of a priority list and for me the numbers would be "keep doing it until the deficit is 0" Then pass a balanced budget amendment that would allow for emergency overspending but would require something like 80% support in both houses with a straight up or down vote (no parliamentary tricks allowed), meaning we would pretty much have to have a war or major disaster to convince enough people to open the purse strings, given our culture. As for the existing debt, I would let natural economic growth and the fact that pretty much all of this debt has a scheduled paydown period take care of that.
    Not bad I can go along with most of that...but include...a total moratorium on ALL foreign aid and revisit after were out of debt and in the black...attack illegal immigration with whatever it takes to stop it...those two issues alone will put hundreds of billions a year back in our treasury...but no one is even mentioning it...sad

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    cut nonessential spending.

    come to understand that "nonessential" includes "everything except Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution.

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    cut nonessential spending.

    come to understand that "nonessential" includes "everything except Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution.
    Why is it so hard for you and many others to understand that its more than that? Why do you think its impossible for essential spending, even just under Section 8, to not create a deficit at our current tax level? Military spending for example counts over a THIRD of the budget, add veterans care, you get almost 40 percent. Why dont you actually do the math instead of making assumptions

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    We already enjoy a substantial cost advantage over our USA based competetors. My hope is that whatever you do, it increases their costs some but not enough to force them to move their operations off-shore.

    .

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    Re: Should we default, cut spending, or increase our debt?

    Quote Originally Posted by friday View Post
    Obama and Democrats are acting like there are two choices: increase the debt ceiling or default on our debt and basically declare national bankruptcy. These two choices are dishonest. There is a third choice. We can cut spending for non-essential programs, cowboy poetry festivals, turtle bridges and skate parks, superman capes for the unemployed, NPR, planned parenthood, the war in Libya, etc and cut spending enough to meet our current debt obligations. ...some of this I agree with, but programs that benefit man's quality of living must continue, I'd like to see more NPR and controls on advertising.

    The government is like a man in a 5,000 sq ft home with premium cable channels, eating fillet mignon for breakfast lunch and dinner, driving five nice cars, with a lawn service, pool service, weekend hookers, and every gaming system known to man claiming that if we don't let him open another credit card to pay the minimum balance on his current card he will either have to declare bankruptcy or choose between taking his medication or eating. The is waste, both private and public, we need people to recognize this and do what is right....We may not yet have the quality of people for this.

    Are those really the options?
    And we need better politicians, the libs want to tax the rich the cons want to tax the poor...what does this accomplish ?
    But things were done during the Reagan and Bush years that were bad for our masses but good for the wealthy.
    These things must be reversed.
    And all the wars must stop.

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