View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO - I am over 40, and they should have to pay for me, even if they never draw out

    2 5.00%
  • YES - I am over 40, and they should be allowed to do so

    9 22.50%
  • SORTA - I'm over 40; they should be allowed to split their FICA between themselves and me

    3 7.50%
  • YES - I am under 40 and I would much rather not pay into an SS system I will never draw from

    21 52.50%
  • NO - I am under 40; I feel it's my obligation to pay the Boomers, though I will never see a dime

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

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    Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Over in the poll on whether or not folks are willing to give up their social security, the young seem to be breaking pretty heavily in favor of doing so; with the oft-repeated point that they have no anticipation of ever collecting.

    SO

    ASSUMING that they are correct (and mathematically, they are), should the young who can reasonably expect to never be able to draw from the system be allowed to opt out and not throw their FICA money away?

    I remind all here that the young are also generally the poor; and the FICA tax is often the heaviest burden placed on them by government.


    as an editing note - those who are under 40 and would prefer to split their FICA should vote as though they are over 40 and that is their option. you can post in the thread if you want to specify your age with that one.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-19-11 at 05:33 AM.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Of course quite a few of the young folks wish to opt out. After all they're being told that they'll never recieve any of it back.

    As for the FICA tax being the heaviest burden placed on them...hardly. The federal tax takes way more out of thier checks than does FICA. Same with the state tax...though to a bit lesser of a degree compared to the federal.
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    No, no individual citizen ever has had nor should have the right to opt out of a tax.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Over in the poll on whether or not folks are willing to give up their social security, the young seem to be breaking pretty heavily in favor of doing so; with the oft-repeated point that they have no anticipation of ever collecting.

    SO

    ASSUMING that they are correct (and mathematically, they are), should the young who can reasonably expect to never be able to draw from the system be allowed to opt out and not throw their FICA money away?

    I remind all here that the young are also generally the poor; and the FICA tax is often the heaviest burden placed on them by government.


    as an editing note - those who are under 40 and would prefer to split their FICA should vote as though they are over 40 and that is their option. you can post in the thread if you want to specify your age with that one.
    It's a relevant argument, but only because we have a goverment unable to competently handle our business. This would stand up in court. Harry's Law should handle the case. You'd get your money back, alright. And a million for being put through such concern.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    I didnt respond to the poll because of the way its worded. The young are being brainwashed by the rich. The rich do not want to pay into social security or medicare because they dont need it. That amounts to a whopping maybe 5% the rest of the country does need it in varying degrees.
    They told me 40 yrs ago SS wouldnt be there for me...someole sameole nothing changes.
    The RICH want you in 401ks so they have more control over more money and can manipulate it more...ask the Employees of Worldcom and Enron what they think of 401ks. There are no guarantees with 401ks, if the pigs at the trough decide to steal it...they got it. When your ready to retire if the market is down and your 401k investments are down you take a big hit.
    The teaparty has their govs giving tax breaks to the richest americans and corporations and attacking public workers to pay for it...Ryan has the ordasity to virtually brutalize the middle class and poor and to promote giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest.
    BULL**** any working class america that buys into this young or old is a damn fool.
    Ive written my congressman and told him flat out...Paul Ryan and his plan sucks and anyone that supports it will not get my vote PERIOD I got a feeling im not the only one that told him this...hes having phone town halls and sending reps out everywhere to have meetings because he knows its in trouble in his district in fla
    Remember this..Florida is retiree heaven and the GOP MUST HAVE FLORIDA to win the presidency...do some of that math CP will
    Last edited by lpast; 04-19-11 at 07:03 AM.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Of course quite a few of the young folks wish to opt out. After all they're being told that they'll never recieve any of it back.
    well naturally. would you wish to pay for a generation of boomers who spent the past few decades writing themselves bad checks, chargeable to your account?

    As for the FICA tax being the heaviest burden placed on them...hardly. The federal tax takes way more out of thier checks than does FICA. Same with the state tax...though to a bit lesser of a degree compared to the federal.
    45% of households don't pay Federal income taxes; those 45% are generally the poor which are also generally the young. however, everyone (virtually) pays the payroll (FICA) tax, economists are near-united in their belief that the employer "match" comes out of compensation. Which means that each employee is taxed at roughly 15% of income for FICA before they ever get to local, state, and federal income taxes. given that local and state rates are under 15% for low-income workers, and they aren't paying federal income tax, i would very much like to see you demonstrate that the payroll tax is beaten by a heavier tax burden from somewhere else.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    well naturally. would you wish to pay for a generation of boomers who spent the past few decades writing themselves bad checks, chargeable to your account?



    45% of households don't pay Federal income taxes; those 45% are generally the poor which are also generally the young. however, everyone (virtually) pays the payroll (FICA) tax, economists are near-united in their belief that the employer "match" comes out of compensation. Which means that each employee is taxed at roughly 15% of income for FICA before they ever get to local, state, and federal income taxes. given that local and state rates are under 15% for low-income workers, and they aren't paying federal income tax, i would very much like to see you demonstrate that the payroll tax is beaten by a heavier tax burden from somewhere else.
    I voted to give them the option to opt out against my better judgment. But then I can't see into the future. If the future is really that bleak, the young folks are going to lose all of their money no matter what happens.

    I didn't get a choice. I paid through the nose (especially when I was self employed) to support the Greatest Generation, yeah, that's right, those that never paid in one red cent.
    Grumbling aside, if the young want to make their own beds, I say let them lie in them when they are old and feeble. Unless of course, they're all like James Dean.
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quite honestly - I think that the government is routinely surprised that the People learn about things.
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I didnt respond to the poll because of the way its worded. The young are being brainwashed by the rich
    realizing that we don't have the $17 Trillion that the Social Security Administration admits we would need today in order to keep that solvent is anything but brainwashing.

    The rich do not want to pay into social security or medicare because they dont need it. That amounts to a whopping maybe 5% the rest of the country does need it in varying degrees.
    so you are in favor of Paul Ryan's plan to save Medicare and adopt means-testing, to give wealthy future retirees less and poor future retirees more?

    The RICH want you in 401ks so they have more control over more money and can manipulate it more...ask the Employees of Worldcom and Enron what they think of 401ks. There are no guarantees with 401ks, if the pigs at the trough decide to steal it...they got it. When your ready to retire if the market is down and your 401k investments are down you take a big hit.
    tell it to someone who hasn't run the numbers themself. Even after we accounted in our CAGR for the tech and real estate bubble crashes, and even after we invented a third, mythical crash of the same depth as the one we just went through, even if our worker was low-income his entire career, even if he was only ever allowed to put two thirds of his FICA tax in, and even if he then made the stupidest series of decisions possible; he STILL ended up with more than TWICE the benefit as an AVERAGE (which is to say, higher than low-income) retiree recieves with a private account.

    on the other hand, the current system has a guarantee. if we continue on our current course, it is guaranteed to collapse.

    The teaparty has their govs giving tax breaks to the richest americans and corporations
    actually the 2012 House budget is tax neutral with regards to the wealthy and US corporations. what it does do, however, is simplify the tax code, which will save our economy hundreds of billions of dollars each year.

    and attacking public workers to pay for it
    by letting them retire on schedule and draw a full pension? the horror!

    Ryan has the ordasity to virtually brutalize the middle class and poor and to promote giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest.
    BULL**** any working class america that buys into this young or old is a damn fool.
    OR wants to avoid a debt crises that would destroy our nations fisc.

    Remember this..Florida is retiree heaven and the GOP MUST HAVE FLORIDA to win the presidency...do some of that math CP will
    1. Ryan's plan doesn't effect current Retirees - so the only way Democrats can successfully demagogue this is by lying; which i'm fully willing to accept they will do, but is this what you are suggesting?
    2. This would be the Florida that just sent Marco Rubio to the Senate?
    3. Mitch Daniels won reelection by a wide margin (even picking up a hefty percentage of African Amerians) as governor of a state that went heavily for Obama in 2008. I'm willing to bet he can pick up Florida.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    No, no individual citizen ever has had nor should have the right to opt out of a tax.
    Sorry, but I was allowed to "opt out" of Social Security in 1966. So, I didn't pay into SS and I don't collect now.

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