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Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?


  • Total voters
    33

cpwill

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Over in the poll on whether or not folks are willing to give up their social security, the young seem to be breaking pretty heavily in favor of doing so; with the oft-repeated point that they have no anticipation of ever collecting.

SO

ASSUMING that they are correct (and mathematically, they are), should the young who can reasonably expect to never be able to draw from the system be allowed to opt out and not throw their FICA money away?

I remind all here that the young are also generally the poor; and the FICA tax is often the heaviest burden placed on them by government.


as an editing note - those who are under 40 and would prefer to split their FICA should vote as though they are over 40 and that is their option. you can post in the thread if you want to specify your age with that one.
 
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Of course quite a few of the young folks wish to opt out. After all they're being told that they'll never recieve any of it back.

As for the FICA tax being the heaviest burden placed on them...hardly. The federal tax takes way more out of thier checks than does FICA. Same with the state tax...though to a bit lesser of a degree compared to the federal.
 
No, no individual citizen ever has had nor should have the right to opt out of a tax.
 
Over in the poll on whether or not folks are willing to give up their social security, the young seem to be breaking pretty heavily in favor of doing so; with the oft-repeated point that they have no anticipation of ever collecting.

SO

ASSUMING that they are correct (and mathematically, they are), should the young who can reasonably expect to never be able to draw from the system be allowed to opt out and not throw their FICA money away?

I remind all here that the young are also generally the poor; and the FICA tax is often the heaviest burden placed on them by government.


as an editing note - those who are under 40 and would prefer to split their FICA should vote as though they are over 40 and that is their option. you can post in the thread if you want to specify your age with that one.

It's a relevant argument, but only because we have a goverment unable to competently handle our business. This would stand up in court. Harry's Law should handle the case. You'd get your money back, alright. And a million for being put through such concern.
 
I didnt respond to the poll because of the way its worded. The young are being brainwashed by the rich. The rich do not want to pay into social security or medicare because they dont need it. That amounts to a whopping maybe 5% the rest of the country does need it in varying degrees.
They told me 40 yrs ago SS wouldnt be there for me...someole sameole nothing changes.
The RICH want you in 401ks so they have more control over more money and can manipulate it more...ask the Employees of Worldcom and Enron what they think of 401ks. There are no guarantees with 401ks, if the pigs at the trough decide to steal it...they got it. When your ready to retire if the market is down and your 401k investments are down you take a big hit.
The teaparty has their govs giving tax breaks to the richest americans and corporations and attacking public workers to pay for it...Ryan has the ordasity to virtually brutalize the middle class and poor and to promote giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest.
BULL**** any working class america that buys into this young or old is a damn fool.
Ive written my congressman and told him flat out...Paul Ryan and his plan sucks and anyone that supports it will not get my vote PERIOD I got a feeling im not the only one that told him this...hes having phone town halls and sending reps out everywhere to have meetings because he knows its in trouble in his district in fla
Remember this..Florida is retiree heaven and the GOP MUST HAVE FLORIDA to win the presidency...do some of that math CP will
 
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Of course quite a few of the young folks wish to opt out. After all they're being told that they'll never recieve any of it back.

well naturally. would you wish to pay for a generation of boomers who spent the past few decades writing themselves bad checks, chargeable to your account?

As for the FICA tax being the heaviest burden placed on them...hardly. The federal tax takes way more out of thier checks than does FICA. Same with the state tax...though to a bit lesser of a degree compared to the federal.

45% of households don't pay Federal income taxes; those 45% are generally the poor which are also generally the young. however, everyone (virtually) pays the payroll (FICA) tax, economists are near-united in their belief that the employer "match" comes out of compensation. Which means that each employee is taxed at roughly 15% of income for FICA before they ever get to local, state, and federal income taxes. given that local and state rates are under 15% for low-income workers, and they aren't paying federal income tax, i would very much like to see you demonstrate that the payroll tax is beaten by a heavier tax burden from somewhere else.
 
well naturally. would you wish to pay for a generation of boomers who spent the past few decades writing themselves bad checks, chargeable to your account?



45% of households don't pay Federal income taxes; those 45% are generally the poor which are also generally the young. however, everyone (virtually) pays the payroll (FICA) tax, economists are near-united in their belief that the employer "match" comes out of compensation. Which means that each employee is taxed at roughly 15% of income for FICA before they ever get to local, state, and federal income taxes. given that local and state rates are under 15% for low-income workers, and they aren't paying federal income tax, i would very much like to see you demonstrate that the payroll tax is beaten by a heavier tax burden from somewhere else.
I voted to give them the option to opt out against my better judgment. But then I can't see into the future. If the future is really that bleak, the young folks are going to lose all of their money no matter what happens.

I didn't get a choice. I paid through the nose (especially when I was self employed) to support the Greatest Generation, yeah, that's right, those that never paid in one red cent.
Grumbling aside, if the young want to make their own beds, I say let them lie in them when they are old and feeble. Unless of course, they're all like James Dean.
 
Quite honestly - I think that the government is routinely surprised that the People learn about things.
 
I didnt respond to the poll because of the way its worded. The young are being brainwashed by the rich

:lamo realizing that we don't have the $17 Trillion that the Social Security Administration admits we would need today in order to keep that solvent is anything but brainwashing.

The rich do not want to pay into social security or medicare because they dont need it. That amounts to a whopping maybe 5% the rest of the country does need it in varying degrees.

so you are in favor of Paul Ryan's plan to save Medicare and adopt means-testing, to give wealthy future retirees less and poor future retirees more?

The RICH want you in 401ks so they have more control over more money and can manipulate it more...ask the Employees of Worldcom and Enron what they think of 401ks. There are no guarantees with 401ks, if the pigs at the trough decide to steal it...they got it. When your ready to retire if the market is down and your 401k investments are down you take a big hit.

tell it to someone who hasn't run the numbers themself. Even after we accounted in our CAGR for the tech and real estate bubble crashes, and even after we invented a third, mythical crash of the same depth as the one we just went through, even if our worker was low-income his entire career, even if he was only ever allowed to put two thirds of his FICA tax in, and even if he then made the stupidest series of decisions possible; he STILL ended up with more than TWICE the benefit as an AVERAGE (which is to say, higher than low-income) retiree recieves with a private account.

on the other hand, the current system has a guarantee. if we continue on our current course, it is guaranteed to collapse.

The teaparty has their govs giving tax breaks to the richest americans and corporations

actually the 2012 House budget is tax neutral with regards to the wealthy and US corporations. what it does do, however, is simplify the tax code, which will save our economy hundreds of billions of dollars each year.

and attacking public workers to pay for it

by letting them retire on schedule and draw a full pension? :shock: the horror!

Ryan has the ordasity to virtually brutalize the middle class and poor and to promote giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest.
BULL**** any working class america that buys into this young or old is a damn fool.

OR wants to avoid a debt crises that would destroy our nations fisc.

Remember this..Florida is retiree heaven and the GOP MUST HAVE FLORIDA to win the presidency...do some of that math CP will

1. Ryan's plan doesn't effect current Retirees - so the only way Democrats can successfully demagogue this is by lying; which i'm fully willing to accept they will do, but is this what you are suggesting?
2. This would be the Florida that just sent Marco Rubio to the Senate?
3. Mitch Daniels won reelection by a wide margin (even picking up a hefty percentage of African Amerians) as governor of a state that went heavily for Obama in 2008. I'm willing to bet he can pick up Florida.
 
No, no individual citizen ever has had nor should have the right to opt out of a tax.

Sorry, but I was allowed to "opt out" of Social Security in 1966. So, I didn't pay into SS and I don't collect now.
 
and no doubt you are currently starving in the snow?
 
The choices listed show a definite bias intended to produce a skewed result. As such, the poll is rendered irrelevant.

I would have voted for the following choice

NO - they themselves will benefit someday
 
View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

I am under 40 and I say we should be allowed to opt out of something we are not going to collect in the future. As a matter of fact I think we should be a refund for the money we did put into SS.Because SS is one of one of those things people pay into with the intention that basically one day they will get it back.
 
As for the FICA tax being the heaviest burden placed on them...hardly. The federal tax takes way more out of thier checks than does FICA. Same with the state tax...though to a bit lesser of a degree compared to the federal.

For 47% of American taxpayers, FICA and Medicare is the largest Federal tax they pay....'cause they don't pay any Federal income taxes at all.
 
I'd probably opt out, and just take the portion of my check they would take out, and put it in an interest bearing account myself.
 
For 47% of American taxpayers, FICA and Medicare is the largest Federal tax they pay....'cause they don't pay any Federal income taxes at all.

That's sounds right you are withheld 7.65 percent of all earnings and there is no minimum limit.

My dad would match whatever i put into the bank. That's what social security does. It's not really a tax. It's more what dad was doing.
 
I opt out of this bogus poll with its unsubstantiated premise. Social Security will be there in full for our children and our children's children. The issues associated to it are pretty straightforward to correct.
 
I can't really count on SS being there for me in 40 years, but opting out isn't that easy. The system doesn't actually return the money you paid in and needs current tax revenues for funding. Social security provides needed social stability among the old and suddenly cutting off the money would have consequences. Ideally SS will get enough reforms like an increased retirement age that it can continue to make ends meet. Failing that, it needs to be phased out gradually to minimize the fallout.
 
I didnt respond to the poll because of the way its worded. The young are being brainwashed by the rich. The rich do not want to pay into social security or medicare because they dont need it. That amounts to a whopping maybe 5% the rest of the country does need it in varying degrees.
They told me 40 yrs ago SS wouldnt be there for me...someole sameole nothing changes.
The RICH want you in 401ks so they have more control over more money and can manipulate it more...ask the Employees of Worldcom and Enron what they think of 401ks. There are no guarantees with 401ks, if the pigs at the trough decide to steal it...they got it. When your ready to retire if the market is down and your 401k investments are down you take a big hit.
The teaparty has their govs giving tax breaks to the richest americans and corporations and attacking public workers to pay for it...Ryan has the ordasity to virtually brutalize the middle class and poor and to promote giving a huge tax cut to the wealthiest.
BULL**** any working class america that buys into this young or old is a damn fool.
Ive written my congressman and told him flat out...Paul Ryan and his plan sucks and anyone that supports it will not get my vote PERIOD I got a feeling im not the only one that told him this...hes having phone town halls and sending reps out everywhere to have meetings because he knows its in trouble in his district in fla
Remember this..Florida is retiree heaven and the GOP MUST HAVE FLORIDA to win the presidency...do some of that math CP will

Dude you are so brain washed.. How can actually believe this tripe?


Tim-
 
Bogus poll. What exactly is the motivation to do a bogus poll?

I’ve paid in for others. (We did get too much ahead and ‘loaned’ the money for other expenses like stupid wars, e.g. Vietnam. But, that money can be repaid with normal taxes.) Now I’m collecting from those that are earning now. My SS check is a small but significant portion of our funds. For one of our neighbors their SS check is very significant. Very nice people, worked hard but a low paying jobs. Didn’t save much, but paid SS. The forced SS program has saved them and their ‘neighbors’.

Again, what exactly is the motivation to do a bogus poll?
 
i am borderline between the last two... most preferably the second to last, but i will settle for the last.
 
I feel no obligation to pay for a promise that I had no part in making to anyone. The way I see social security is that a generation made promises to pad their retirements at the expense of future generations and that it was a wholly selfish act on their parts that has created long-term difficulties for the nation today.

Because so many have come to depend on SS, I say we let anyone over a certain age keep to their plan to go on the dole at 65 but everyone younger doesn't need to opt out -- it simply will not continue for them. Let people be responsible for their own retirements.
 
:lamo realizing that we don't have the $17 Trillion that the Social Security Administration admits we would need today in order to keep that solvent is anything but brainwashing.



so you are in favor of Paul Ryan's plan to save Medicare and adopt means-testing, to give wealthy future retirees less and poor future retirees more?



tell it to someone who hasn't run the numbers themself. Even after we accounted in our CAGR for the tech and real estate bubble crashes, and even after we invented a third, mythical crash of the same depth as the one we just went through, even if our worker was low-income his entire career, even if he was only ever allowed to put two thirds of his FICA tax in, and even if he then made the stupidest series of decisions possible; he STILL ended up with more than TWICE the benefit as an AVERAGE (which is to say, higher than low-income) retiree recieves with a private account.

on the other hand, the current system has a guarantee. if we continue on our current course, it is guaranteed to collapse.



actually the 2012 House budget is tax neutral with regards to the wealthy and US corporations. what it does do, however, is simplify the tax code, which will save our economy hundreds of billions of dollars each year.



by letting them retire on schedule and draw a full pension? :shock: the horror!



OR wants to avoid a debt crises that would destroy our nations fisc.



1. Ryan's plan doesn't effect current Retirees - so the only way Democrats can successfully demagogue this is by lying; which i'm fully willing to accept they will do, but is this what you are suggesting?
2. This would be the Florida that just sent Marco Rubio to the Senate?
3. Mitch Daniels won reelection by a wide margin (even picking up a hefty percentage of African Amerians) as governor of a state that went heavily for Obama in 2008. I'm willing to bet he can pick up Florida.


CP your a smart guy and I respect your opinion but you keep saying the same things over and over and you refuse to address any points any one else makes and please dont put your intentions to my words...another words please dont put words in my mouth.

so you are in favor of Paul Ryan's plan to save Medicare and adopt means-testing, to give wealthy future retirees less and poor future retirees more?

No I am not because paul ryan idea of rich starts at the lower middleclass at 75,000 Paul Ryan is real cute, he wants lower payments to start at 75k...in 10 yrs two people wont be able to live on 75k whos BSin who CP ? ryans plan is a totaly conjob
 
I feel no obligation to pay for a promise that I had no part in making to anyone. The way I see social security is that a generation made promises to pad their retirements at the expense of future generations and that it was a wholly selfish act on their parts that has created long-term difficulties for the nation today.

Because so many have come to depend on SS, I say we let anyone over a certain age keep to their plan to go on the dole at 65 but everyone younger doesn't need to opt out -- it simply will not continue for them. Let people be responsible for their own retirements.

The only ones that depend on social security is the people that PAID into it all their lives and need it and the working poor who pay into social security and dont make enough to live on and save for retirement and healthbenes...what totally eludes you is that if you take SS away and Medicare you WILL PAY for the people that cant afford to save for it anyway and your going to PAY lots lots more...I see you didnt mention paying for Illegal Immigrants that doesnt bother you? and our money going to foreign aid to 154 countries to support them...thats more important that supporting your own that cant afford to do it on their own
 
The only ones that depend on social security is the people that PAID into it all their lives and need it and the working poor who pay into social security and dont make enough to live on and save for retirement and healthbenes...what totally eludes you is that if you take SS away and Medicare you WILL PAY for the people that cant afford to save for it anyway and your going to PAY lots lots more...I see you didnt mention paying for Illegal Immigrants that doesnt bother you? and our money going to foreign aid to 154 countries to support them...thats more important that supporting your own that cant afford to do it on their own

If we had been having a conversation about illegal immigrants or 154 countries, then I would have been commenting on those issues. However, this conversation was about the young opting out of social security deductions so THAT is what I commented on and not your irrelevant side issues.

It is not in the nation's interest nor in the individual interest to tie our retirement collectively to society as a means of providing artificial safety nets where family structure and personal responsibility would serve better.
 
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