View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO - I am over 40, and they should have to pay for me, even if they never draw out

    2 5.00%
  • YES - I am over 40, and they should be allowed to do so

    9 22.50%
  • SORTA - I'm over 40; they should be allowed to split their FICA between themselves and me

    3 7.50%
  • YES - I am under 40 and I would much rather not pay into an SS system I will never draw from

    21 52.50%
  • NO - I am under 40; I feel it's my obligation to pay the Boomers, though I will never see a dime

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Over in the poll on whether or not folks are willing to give up their social security, the young seem to be breaking pretty heavily in favor of doing so; with the oft-repeated point that they have no anticipation of ever collecting.

    SO

    ASSUMING that they are correct (and mathematically, they are), should the young who can reasonably expect to never be able to draw from the system be allowed to opt out and not throw their FICA money away?

    I remind all here that the young are also generally the poor; and the FICA tax is often the heaviest burden placed on them by government.


    as an editing note - those who are under 40 and would prefer to split their FICA should vote as though they are over 40 and that is their option. you can post in the thread if you want to specify your age with that one.
    Wait a minute, I thought SS was a trust fund. How will opting out affect SS? I've been pay in all these years, and you mean it's been going out to someone?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS. #MAGA

  2. #42
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    But people will end up not being responsible for themselves. We will not let them starve in the streets.
    Why do people always use this talking point? Oh you aren't paying for them! They will starve in the streets! Get real.

    Last time I checked that wouldn't happen and frankly its not MY problem. If you are so concerned about it pay for it yourself. Don't force me on the ride like you have a right to do so. You don't.

  3. #43
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickey Shane View Post
    It was a completely unselfish promise in the beginning. We took care of our own elderly citizens, many of whom had lost the farm in the great depression. Should the great depression II come to a city near you, you will not have any money in your old age. No matter how well you conceive, plan, and execute your personal retirement plan, you will be broke and destitute.

    Do you still want to rough it on your own?
    again, I've run the figures and posted them for all to see. even if you retire in the middle of such a crash, you still do more than twice as well with a personal account as you do with social (in)security.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Wait a minute, I thought SS was a trust fund. How will opting out affect SS? I've been pay in all these years, and you mean it's been going out to someone?
    it's a "trust" "fund" with neither.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Why do people always use this talking point? Oh you aren't paying for them! They will starve in the streets! Get real.

    Last time I checked that wouldn't happen and frankly its not MY problem. If you are so concerned about it pay for it yourself. Don't force me on the ride like you have a right to do so. You don't.
    They weren't starving in the streets before SS. Now why is it that without SS it will suddenly start happening now?

  6. #46
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    They weren't starving in the streets before SS. Now why is it that without SS it will suddenly start happening now?
    um....yes, they were.

    State Old-Age Pensions

    Following the outbreak of the Great Depression, poverty among the elderly grew dramatically. The best estimates are that in 1934 over half of the elderly in America lacked sufficient income to be self-supporting. Despite this, state welfare pensions for the elderly were practically non-existent before 1930. A spurt of pension legislation was passed in the years immediately prior to passage of the Social Security Act, so that 30 states had some form of old-age pension program by 1935. However, these programs were generally inadequate and ineffective. Only about 3% of the elderly were actually receiving benefits under these states plans, and the average benefit amount was about 65 cents a day.

    There were many reasons for the low participation in state-run pension systems. Many elderly were reluctant to "go on welfare." Restrictive eligibility criteria kept many poor seniors from qualifying. Some jurisdictions, while having state programs on the books, failed to actually implement them. Many of the state-passed pension laws provided for counties within the state to opt to participate in the pension program. As a result, in 1929 of the six states with operating pension laws on the books only 53 of the 264 counties eligible to adopt a pension plan actually did so. After 1929, the States began enacting laws without county options. By 1932 seventeen states had old age pension laws, although none were in the south, and 87% of the money available under these laws were expended in only three states (California, Massachusetts and New York).


    America Changes

    Despite all of the institutional strategies adopted in early America to assure some measure of economic security, huge changes would sweep through America which would, in time, undermine the existing institutions. Four important demographic changes happened in America beginning in the mid-1880s that rendered the traditional systems of economic security increasingly unworkable:

    The Industrial Revolution
    The urbanization of America
    The disappearance of the "extended" family
    A marked increase in life expectancy
    The Industrial Revolution transformed the majority of working people from self-employed agricultural workers into wage earners working for large industrial concerns. In an agricultural society, prosperity could be easily seen to be linked to one's labor, and anyone willing to work could usually provide at least a bare subsistence for themselves and their family. But when economic income is primarily from wages, one's economic security can be threatened by factors outside one's control--such as recessions, layoffs, failed businesses, etc.

    Along with the shift from an agricultural to an industrial society, Americans moved from farms and small rural communities to large cities--that's where the industrial jobs were. In 1890, only 28% of the population lived in cities, by 1930 this percentage had exactly doubled, to 56%.

    Social Security Online

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  7. #47
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    um....yes, they were.
    Um, no, they weren't. That only says they lacked income to be self sufficient. They lived with family, giving to the next generation while enjoying the comfort of being surrounded by loved ones.

    They weren't starving in the streets. Try again.

  8. #48
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Why should we be getting off our duffs to fix a system of promises that we never made to begin with? Why should we be collectively be supporting society at the expense of supporting ourselves and our loved ones as they age?

    It's not a legitimate tax. It's a forced retirement plan that is administered with less efficiency and success than we could do for ourselves. We're not saying we won't let the older generations keep their selfish promises to themselves at our expense...that boat sailed during the Roosevelt administration. But we should be given back control of our futures rather than paying into an insolvent entitlement we never asked for to start with.
    i've done it for 37 years, and i never asked for it either. grow up.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i've done it for 37 years, and i never asked for it either. grow up.
    I'm not the one kicking and screaming tantrums for the next generation to bear the debt of my retirement costs, O' Childish Senior.

  10. #50
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Um, no, they weren't. That only says they lacked income to be self sufficient. They lived with family, giving to the next generation while enjoying the comfort of being surrounded by loved ones.

    They weren't starving in the streets. Try again.
    ever hear of the great depression?

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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