View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO - I am over 40, and they should have to pay for me, even if they never draw out

    2 5.00%
  • YES - I am over 40, and they should be allowed to do so

    9 22.50%
  • SORTA - I'm over 40; they should be allowed to split their FICA between themselves and me

    3 7.50%
  • YES - I am under 40 and I would much rather not pay into an SS system I will never draw from

    21 52.50%
  • NO - I am under 40; I feel it's my obligation to pay the Boomers, though I will never see a dime

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

  1. #31
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    That's sounds right you are withheld 7.65 percent of all earnings and there is no minimum limit.

    My dad would match whatever i put into the bank. That's what social security does. It's not really a tax. It's more what dad was doing.
    not unless your dad immediately took your money, and his, and spent it on booze.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by shintao View Post
    Yes they should pay in, and get off thier duff and fix the system so it will be there for them. Americans could effectively shutdown government if they could opt out of everything they don't use or don't like. Nonsense!! It is the ol con-kids-game of "Why should I have to pay?"
    Why should we be getting off our duffs to fix a system of promises that we never made to begin with? Why should we be collectively be supporting society at the expense of supporting ourselves and our loved ones as they age?

    It's not a legitimate tax. It's a forced retirement plan that is administered with less efficiency and success than we could do for ourselves. We're not saying we won't let the older generations keep their selfish promises to themselves at our expense...that boat sailed during the Roosevelt administration. But we should be given back control of our futures rather than paying into an insolvent entitlement we never asked for to start with.
    Last edited by Nonplussed; 04-19-11 at 05:56 PM.

  3. #33
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    CP your a smart guy and I respect your opinion but you keep saying the same things over and over and you refuse to address any points any one else makes
    ...says the guy who refuses to even pretend to answer points, and instead prefers to post in a blurb at the bottom?

    and please dont put your intentions to my words...another words please dont put words in my mouth.
    all i'm doing is demonstrating how your claims don't jibe with your positions.

    I support ending corporate welfare! except when republicans do it
    I support not cutting taxes on the rich! unless of course such an idea is proposed by a member of the GOP
    I support trying to make sure that we are helping the poor during the time of cuts! but not Republican attempts to do so

    you complain about fantastical GOP positions, and then I point out to you how you are already in agreement with the Ryan Budget... and the response from you is.... silence...

    No I am not because paul ryan idea of rich starts at the lower middleclass at 75,000
    you consider 75K a year to be lower middle class?!?

    dang.... i wish i was lower middle class. here i was thinking i was lower middle class, and apparently i'm impoverished or something.

    Paul Ryan is real cute, he wants lower payments to start at 75k...in 10 yrs two people wont be able to live on 75k
    sure they will be. however, you will be happy to know that those benefits are linked to inflation.

  4. #34
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...says the guy who refuses to even pretend to answer points, and instead prefers to post in a blurb at the bottom?



    all i'm doing is demonstrating how your claims don't jibe with your positions.

    I support ending corporate welfare! except when republicans do it
    I support not cutting taxes on the rich! unless of course such an idea is proposed by a member of the GOP
    I support trying to make sure that we are helping the poor during the time of cuts! but not Republican attempts to do so

    you complain about fantastical GOP positions, and then I point out to you how you are already in agreement with the Ryan Budget... and the response from you is.... silence...



    you consider 75K a year to be lower middle class?!?

    dang.... i wish i was lower middle class. here i was thinking i was lower middle class, and apparently i'm impoverished or something.



    sure they will be. however, you will be happy to know that those benefits are linked to inflation.
    As I already explained to him, 75k is the 88% percentile, hardly lower middle class.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  5. #35
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    45% of households don't pay Federal income taxes; those 45% are generally the poor which are also generally the young. however, everyone (virtually) pays the payroll (FICA) tax, economists are near-united in their belief that the employer "match" comes out of compensation. Which means that each employee is taxed at roughly 15% of income for FICA before they ever get to local, state, and federal income taxes. given that local and state rates are under 15% for low-income workers, and they aren't paying federal income tax, i would very much like to see you demonstrate that the payroll tax is beaten by a heavier tax burden from somewhere else.
    Everyone that pays into SS pays into federal each and every check. The reason that they say that 45% of households "don't pay federal income taxes" is because come tax time they get most (or all) of the taxes back that they paid in. Just because they get it all back at the end of the tax season does not mean that taxes are not taken out of checks. And its always the same. Federal taxes are the most, then state then medicare then SS.
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Ya know, something is going to be there when you're too old to work. We're not going to let you wallow in poverty after you worked so hard all your life. We don't do that.

    Don't get too upset that we have politicians who aren't very helpful, I assure you the hospitals are ready for you. That's solid good stuff. If nobody can afford a house then the prices will go down. If you have nothig to eat they will bring you food. You could babysit or do work on the computer for extra cash. Don't report it to the IRS for heavens sake! Keep active and do some stretching and muscle building. If tou have arthritis and it hurts all the more reason to excersize. You'll still have all your favorite music to keep you grounded.

    Being in a nursing home for convalescence really opened my eyes about the lives of old people. I'm not scared a bit.

  7. #37
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Everyone that pays into SS pays into federal each and every check. The reason that they say that 45% of households "don't pay federal income taxes" is because come tax time they get most (or all) of the taxes back that they paid in. Just because they get it all back at the end of the tax season does not mean that taxes are not taken out of checks. And its always the same. Federal taxes are the most, then state then medicare then SS.
    a response that gives us nothing. i want to see the State and Local taxes that are greater than 15% of a low-incoe workers' income.

  8. #38
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    I can't really count on SS being there for me in 40 years, but opting out isn't that easy. The system doesn't actually return the money you paid in and needs current tax revenues for funding. Social security provides needed social stability among the old and suddenly cutting off the money would have consequences. Ideally SS will get enough reforms like an increased retirement age that it can continue to make ends meet. Failing that, it needs to be phased out gradually to minimize the fallout.
    Opting out is currently absolutely impossible if you work for someone else. If you have your own business, you can "sort of" opt out by incorporating your business, paying yourself a ridiculously low salary (on which SS/Medicare is withheld) and paying out the rest of your money in the form of dividends...unless and until the IRS catches you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    I feel no obligation to pay for a promise that I had no part in making to anyone. The way I see social security is that a generation made promises to pad their retirements at the expense of future generations and that it was a wholly selfish act on their parts that has created long-term difficulties for the nation today. Because so many have come to depend on SS, I say we let anyone over a certain age keep to their plan to go on the dole at 65 but everyone younger doesn't need to opt out -- it simply will not continue for them. Let people be responsible for their own retirements.
    But people will end up not being responsible for themselves. We will not let them starve in the streets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Why should we be getting off our duffs to fix a system of promises that we never made to begin with? Why should we be collectively be supporting society at the expense of supporting ourselves and our loved ones as they age?
    It's not a legitimate tax. It's a forced retirement plan that is administered with less efficiency and success than we could do for ourselves. We're not saying we won't let the older generations keep their selfish promises to themselves at our expense...that boat sailed during the Roosevelt administration. But we should be given back control of our futures rather than paying into an insolvent entitlement we never asked for to start with.
    It's a legitimate tax. Been proven time and again. These weren't selfish promises...SS is solvent...except that Congress has "funged" the money into other areas...and the piper now needs to be paid. If people are left to their own devices, the greater majority of them will end up broke.

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Ya know, something is going to be there when you're too old to work. We're not going to let you wallow in poverty after you worked so hard all your life. We don't do that. Don't get too upset that we have politicians who aren't very helpful, I assure you the hospitals are ready for you. That's solid good stuff. If nobody can afford a house then the prices will go down. If you have nothig to eat they will bring you food. You could babysit or do work on the computer for extra cash. Don't report it to the IRS for heavens sake! Keep active and do some stretching and muscle building. If tou have arthritis and it hurts all the more reason to excersize. You'll still have all your favorite music to keep you grounded. Being in a nursing home for convalescence really opened my eyes about the lives of old people. I'm not scared a bit.
    I'm with you.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

  9. #39
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It's a legitimate tax. Been proven time and again. These weren't selfish promises...SS is solvent...except that Congress has "funged" the money into other areas...and the piper now needs to be paid. If people are left to their own devices, the greater majority of them will end up broke.
    Who exactly has proven that it's a legitimate tax "time and again"? And yes, the promises were selfish. It was a selfish promise made to one generation at the expense of the next and it rolls from one to the next. It was ill conceived, poorly planned, and executed with no regard for the future of the nation.

    And I don't really care what happens to the greater majority of people left to their own devices. That's their problem. Not mine, not society's.

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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Who exactly has proven that it's a legitimate tax "time and again"? And yes, the promises were selfish. It was a selfish promise made to one generation at the expense of the next and it rolls from one to the next. It was ill conceived, poorly planned, and executed with no regard for the future of the nation.

    And I don't really care what happens to the greater majority of people left to their own devices. That's their problem. Not mine, not society's.
    It was a completely unselfish promise in the beginning. We took care of our own elderly citizens, many of whom had lost the farm in the great depression. Should the great depression II come to a city near you, you will not have any money in your old age. No matter how well you conceive, plan, and execute your personal retirement plan, you will be broke and destitute.

    Do you still want to rough it on your own?
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