View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO - I am over 40, and they should have to pay for me, even if they never draw out

    2 5.00%
  • YES - I am over 40, and they should be allowed to do so

    9 22.50%
  • SORTA - I'm over 40; they should be allowed to split their FICA between themselves and me

    3 7.50%
  • YES - I am under 40 and I would much rather not pay into an SS system I will never draw from

    21 52.50%
  • NO - I am under 40; I feel it's my obligation to pay the Boomers, though I will never see a dime

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

  1. #121
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Cry me a river. I don't know that lady. I don't care if she eats cat food. If she were my neighbor or my aunt or my grandmother or anyone else I cared about, then by all means. But my guilt is absolved by the charity I give already. Let her neighbors or her family tend to her so I have more resources to tend to mine.


    I am not crying, just pointing out why I kept mentioning the 80 year olds eating cat food and why you have a ****ty attitude which you had a problem with me saying.

  2. #122
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post


    I am not crying, just pointing out why I kept mentioning the 80 year olds eating cat food and why you have a ****ty attitude which you had a problem with me saying.
    My attitude really isn't the issue here. Social Security is. And I think you confuse a little literary license with a disposition.

  3. #123
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    My attitude really isn't the issue here. Social Security is. And I think you confuse a little literary license with a disposition.
    As if you weren't attacking me for attitude and lack of faith in people having good will for each other....

  4. #124
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    As if you weren't attacking me for attitude and lack of faith in people having good will for each other....
    What's good for the goose and all.

    But to be honest, I think our core values aren't that far apart. Where we differ is in how to execute those values into policy.

  5. #125
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I really don't like this notion that I should have to have children in order to secure my own financial stability... Children are expensive and costly, and just because I have them for the selfish intent of wiping my ass and keeping my kitchen stocked when I am 80, doesn't mean it will work out that way... I might end up sinking more money in taking care of them, then they do me. I won't have a child for that purpose... It's completely ludicrous.
    1. you have children for many reasons,not least of whoch is the continuation and care of the family, which includes yourself. as a side note; it's worth pointing out that our national birthrate is below replacement level. we need to find a way to incentivize people to have kids, and this strikes me as as good a way of doing it as any.

    2. if you haven't had kids, congradulations! raising a kid costs $11,000 a year, which is money that you have now saved! invested over the 20 years that you weren't raising kid that nets you $552,461.68, which left alone until you retire - 20 years later - will give you $2.8 million dollars, making you financially independent and relieving you of any need to burden the entitlement system!

  6. #126
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. you have children for many reasons,not least of whoch is the continuation and care of the family, which includes yourself. as a side note; it's worth pointing out that our national birthrate is below replacement level. we need to find a way to incentivize people to have kids, and this strikes me as as good a way of doing it as any.

    2. if you haven't had kids, congradulations! raising a kid costs $11,000 a year, which is money that you have now saved! invested over the 20 years that you weren't raising kid that nets you $552,461.68, which left alone until you retire - 20 years later - will give you $2.8 million dollars, making you financially independent and relieving you of any need to burden the entitlement system!
    I think the reason people aren't having kids is because they are expensive... Prices are going up but wages are mostly stagnant. If people had a better quality of life and lived more financially comfortably, they'd feel better about bringing a kid into the world and taking care of it.

  7. #127
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    I have a lot in savings actually but it is in the form of loans I took out, put in a bank, and am making money off of it so when I graduate I will end up being able to pay it all back all at once and have made some money in the process. I do know how to save. My dad is an accountant as is my boyfriend. They have taught me well and continue to do so. I am not working right now because with my class schedule it is not feasible. I am looking for an internship for this summer or may just volunteer in my field so I can make money when I graduate. Considering I am majoring in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, I would hope I make a considerable amount of money once I graduate. I will know how to save and I plan on paying my father back over time. I realize I am very lucky to be in the family I am in. My dad makes a considerable amount of money so what he is paying me a month is very little. He will have money for retirement and by the time he is ready to do that I plan on being in a place where, if necessary, I can help him out.

    My boyfriend's dad did not plan at all for retirement. He worked at the university here and retires next friday. The only reason he has any money to spend during his retirement his because of his ex wife and his son who helped him. I do not think the government should be responsible for his retirement, he should have planned ahead but I'm fairly certain no one taught him along the way, when he was younger how to save. I think that is the key to most of the problems today. Educate people and we could all be fine.
    Lovetosing, thanks for replying to my post. An aside first: I’m a retired EE/ME my wife is a retired avionics software eng. flight management. Our concern is how many of these jobs are moving to India etc. in the past 18 years.

    You wrote “I have a lot in savings actually but it is in the form of loans I took out, put in a bank, and am making money off of it so when I graduate I will end up being able to pay it all back all at once and have made some money in the process.” Sorry, those loans are not savings, they don’t contribute to your net worth. Once you complete the arbitrage what you net will be earnings.

    You wrote “Considering I am majoring in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, I would hope I make a considerable amount of money once I graduate.” These jobs are moving overseas quickly. We were forced to assist and maintain this process when we were working. Good luck.

    You wrote “I realize I am very lucky to be in the family I am in.” Yes you are lucky.

    You wrote “My boyfriend's dad did not plan at all for retirement. He worked at the university here and retires next friday. The only reason he has any money to spend during his retirement his because of his ex wife and his son who helped him.” If he worked for the university he’ll be rescued by SS. He was forced to pay in a small amount now he’ll get small checks, what he deserves. He’ll be a burden, but not too much. One way to look at this particular incidence is his sons SS tax is converted into his SS check, it is a pay as you go system not an investment system.

    You wrote “Educate people and we could all be fine.” When I was young this is also what I thought. Now I know not saving for the future is a personality trait that is very hard to change if at all. And, people have bad luck, e.g. make bad investments in a 401k.

  8. #128
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    I think the reason people aren't having kids is because they are expensive
    people aren't having kids because we are selfish, and modern society has become dedicated to the Fulfillment Of Self Through Experience. Having kids means not taking the extra vacation with the wife, having more than two means the kid isn't a pet, he's one of too many demands on your time. Having kids isn't just expensive, but it's work, and it takes time, and might keep you from pursuing that partnership at the firm.... and the time is just never right... until it's too late.... and you don't need kids any more, well, not you personally; someone else's kids will feed that entitlement system that you are depending on for your old age...

    except that lots of people have followed that set of incentives. which means that we in the industrialized countries are rapidly reaching the point where we don't have enough young people to pay for our old people. which means that Europe (southern europe especially) and Japan are generally doomed, and unless we start pumping out kids, soon enough the only growing (or stabilized) population in the US will be our hispanic immigrants.

    Prices are going up but wages are mostly stagnant. If people had a better quality of life and lived more financially comfortably, they'd feel better about bringing a kid into the world and taking care of it.
    doubtful. the poorer you are, the more kids you have; which sort of turns your argument on its' head.

    i'll admit, on my darker days i wonder if "Idiocracy" is really a comedy... or a warning, sent back in time from the future :p

  9. #129
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    cpwill wrote “people aren't having kids because we are selfish, and modern society has become dedicated to the Fulfillment Of Self Through Experience. Having kids means not taking the extra vacation with the wife, having more than two means the kid isn't a pet, he's one of too many demands on your time. Having kids isn't just expensive, but it's work, and it takes time, and might keep you from pursuing that partnership at the firm.... and the time is just never right... until it's too late....”

    Wow, your post offered insight into your basic underlying principles.

    Our view was that having more than two was selfish for many reasons. Your whole list of motivations are the inverse of ours, e.g. “Fulfillment Of Self Through Experience” was one of the reasons we had two children. Your attribution of motivation is incorrect in most cases. Where did you get it?

    Population is another problem. It deserves another poll.

  10. #130
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    The issue of population implosion could be easily solved with immigration reform..

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