View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO - I am over 40, and they should have to pay for me, even if they never draw out

    2 5.00%
  • YES - I am over 40, and they should be allowed to do so

    9 22.50%
  • SORTA - I'm over 40; they should be allowed to split their FICA between themselves and me

    3 7.50%
  • YES - I am under 40 and I would much rather not pay into an SS system I will never draw from

    21 52.50%
  • NO - I am under 40; I feel it's my obligation to pay the Boomers, though I will never see a dime

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

  1. #101
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    [QUOTE=SheWolf;1059427916]
    Again,

    STOP LECTURING ME
    Get over it. You opened yourself up to it when you decided to lecture me about my "****ty attitude". Can't take the heat? Well you know where you can shove it, right?

    Why do you insist on repeating the very things I said???
    I didn't repeat the things you said. I expounded upon them. I can see conversation isn't your strong point either.

    I guess so you miss the bigger point I was trying to make....
    What points were those again? Something about liberal hating, senior citizens holocausts and ****ty attitudes? If you care to make an actual point, feel free.

    Force people.... I never advocated any of the such. Again, maybe you should read my posts before writing your responses.
    What the hell do you think SS is, lady? It's a forced retirement plan...a forced entitlement.

    I do have a lack of faith in the fellow man...
    I'm not surprised by that at all considering the "us against them", partisan black and white mentality you revealed about yourself earlier.

    The inaction of people is more a problem than my faith in it, and when I read your selfish statements about 80 year olds eating cat food it kind of reinforces that image I have of people.
    Well when I see one generation saddling the next with the debt for their retirement shenanigans, I see a bit of selfishness there too.

    I never made a comment about 80 year olds. People retire at 65, I believe.

    If you really care about your community as much as you claim, then why is so difficult for you to understand where I come from? I don't want to see an 80 year old eat cat food. I would do something about that myself. I expect other people to do it as well. I don't expect the government to force it.
    I wouldn't watch an 80 year old (or a 40 year old for that matter) that I knew eat cat food either. But that's my choice. And as long as SS is around, yes the government is forcing that issue.

    For what we give to SS and get back, we could fund thousands of local foundations to do it cheaper, more efficiently, and with better results. And save for ourselves and support our loved ones.

    Look around the ****ing world and at the state of this country... it's pretty apparent that there is a lack of action and good will.
    What makes you say that? Do you know how much charity money is spent in this country?

    Again, I never said it's governments obligation...
    But you support a government program to do what private citizens should be doing themselves. So yeah, you did say it's the government's obligation.

    It's not my family... It's just not an uncommon occurrence that people don't have the money to support three generations of their family, especially in this economy. Other times people are selfish you know, and the government doesn't enforce us to care, love, or help our parents.
    No, it doesn't. But it has also created artificial social mechanisms that have made family bonds less necessary and so, socially, family structures have deteriorated.

    Ok... you probably live in some pro (heterosexual, pro life, religious) family values bubble, right?
    Actually, I am gay, prochoice, and a heathen but don't let me be responsible for shattering your carefully crafted preconceptions of what politics a person should subscribe to.

    Well, maybe we just come from two different worlds because I happen to be involved with survivors of incest and abuse... I know a lot of people from very dysfunctional family backgrounds. Some people don't have the luxury of depending on a family that treats with basic respect or kindness.
    And I have consistently said that charity should step in to assist those who are unfortunate in that regard. I work with AIDS patients and I see many of them seperated from their family. I know that it happens.

    Some people don't know about loving families... it doesn't make them ignorant or stupid. It's just a fact of reality.
    I never said that.

    You're still clinging to this strawman?
    But it's so much fun to deflate it before it ever gets used again.

    It's ideal that society could do away with SS and everybody would have a comfortable life, which is something I would throw my support behind and help make the necessary changes myself. It will take community involvement and caring for the 80 year olds eating cat food, and it will take rebuilding everybody's faith in man and in the community.

    Lecturing people and telling us that you're not obligated to give a ****, isn't going to accomplish anything.
    Meh. That was mostly in reaction to elderly brats telling me I don't know anything about responsibility just because I happen to disagree with letting them go on the dole, guaranteed, at age 65.

    I have never received a check from the government.... For somebody crying about assumptions, you're quick to make them yourself.
    So then, you don't want that social security check when it's time for them to start?

  2. #102
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Given the nature of SS, if it was ended, in my opinion the tax would have to be ended as well and the SS fund be paided out in rebates to those that have paid into it (proportionally based on what individuals have paid into it)

    Which of course would result in a massive tax increase as the government does not have the money currently to pay out the few trillion dollars that the SS has in reserve ( currently held as US bonds)

    Precisely. So, to pay off those taxes we paid in earlier, we're going to raise taxes on everyone.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  3. #103
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    Yeah, but a principled stand won't work with our government. We don't have any money to dish out. It is a gross abuse... but its going to happen sooner or later. That's the problem with SS paying out so much money to people who didn't pay it in earlier. The govt. is either going to start taking a lot more now to dish out less later or just tell us to piss off. We're getting screwed one way or another.
    They are going to have to come up with something, I agree... It might be just to repay what has already been paid, but discontinue the system in the meantime. It could be repaid with a tax rebate... who knows. But paying everybody out all at once wouldn't work. I know that.

  4. #104
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    They are going to have to come up with something, I agree... It might be just to repay what has already been paid, but discontinue the system in the meantime. It could be repaid with a tax rebate... who knows. But paying everybody out all at once wouldn't work. I know that.
    The truth is we're not going to get the money back.
    If we get rebates, we're going to need further budget cuts to curb the deficit, or, more likely, we're going to raise taxes to pay for them, in which case the rebates will be useless anyway.

    Frankly, paying the money back is going to result in a lot of wealth redistribution. The only class that has enough money to pay for rebates for everyone is the high income earners. They're going to be paying for everyone else' SS rebates.


    This is just a really bad situation. The question at this point is who do we screw the most?
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  5. #105
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    oh........elderly brats? that's rich.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  6. #106
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    I wouldn't watch an 80 year old (or a 40 year old for that matter) that I knew eat cat food either. But that's my choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Sort of like your bull**** fairy tale about seniors dying in the street?

    Look, I understand that you've lived your life on the selfish promise made to you by your own generation or maybe the one before that you will get to live out your retirement as a second childhood snowbirding it back and forth to florida or in an RV or on some sailboat at the tax payers' expense. I get that.

    But it's not my problem nor is it the treasury's problem. If you have to eat catfood into your 80's because you didn't make any other plan save to collect the dole from the government, that's your own problem. I am sure there are programs (and will continue to be programs) to assist lazy, thoughtless, ambitionless adults who coast into their senior years without a plan.

    Get on one of those. Or work as a greeter at Walmart. Just stop driving the country deeper into debt with your selfishness.
    That's your ****ty attitude...

  7. #107
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    The truth is we're not going to get the money back.
    If we get rebates, we're going to need further budget cuts to curb the deficit, or, more likely, we're going to raise taxes to pay for them, in which case the rebates will be useless anyway.

    Frankly, paying the money back is going to result in a lot of wealth redistribution. The only class that has enough money to pay for rebates for everyone is the high income earners. They're going to be paying for everyone else' SS rebates.


    This is just a really bad situation. The question at this point is who do we screw the most?
    This is the fault of the government being irresponsible... Business owners have paid into the SS to match that of their employees. It was like a double tax and it was a different tax system altogether. The government has been taking the funds out and spending it elsewhere, where general taxes are usually spent (which are not double taxed). This gross abuse of the SS tax was a redistribution of wealth.. from the people to the government. The government owes the people that money as much as it owes China.

  8. #108
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    [QUOTE=Nonplussed;1059427979]
    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post

    Get over it. You opened yourself up to it when you decided to lecture me about my "****ty attitude". Can't take the heat? Well you know where you can shove it, right?



    I didn't repeat the things you said. I expounded upon them. I can see conversation isn't your strong point either.



    What points were those again? Something about liberal hating, senior citizens holocausts and ****ty attitudes? If you care to make an actual point, feel free.



    What the hell do you think SS is, lady? It's a forced retirement plan...a forced entitlement.



    I'm not surprised by that at all considering the "us against them", partisan black and white mentality you revealed about yourself earlier.



    Well when I see one generation saddling the next with the debt for their retirement shenanigans, I see a bit of selfishness there too.

    I never made a comment about 80 year olds. People retire at 65, I believe.



    I wouldn't watch an 80 year old (or a 40 year old for that matter) that I knew eat cat food either. But that's my choice. And as long as SS is around, yes the government is forcing that issue.

    For what we give to SS and get back, we could fund thousands of local foundations to do it cheaper, more efficiently, and with better results. And save for ourselves and support our loved ones.



    What makes you say that? Do you know how much charity money is spent in this country?



    But you support a government program to do what private citizens should be doing themselves. So yeah, you did say it's the government's obligation.



    No, it doesn't. But it has also created artificial social mechanisms that have made family bonds less necessary and so, socially, family structures have deteriorated.



    Actually, I am gay, prochoice, and a heathen but don't let me be responsible for shattering your carefully crafted preconceptions of what politics a person should subscribe to.



    And I have consistently said that charity should step in to assist those who are unfortunate in that regard. I work with AIDS patients and I see many of them seperated from their family. I know that it happens.



    I never said that.



    But it's so much fun to deflate it before it ever gets used again.



    Meh. That was mostly in reaction to elderly brats telling me I don't know anything about responsibility just because I happen to disagree with letting them go on the dole, guaranteed, at age 65.



    So then, you don't want that social security check when it's time for them to start?
    Ideally, I would like to get rid of SS... and I have said that a few dozen times. The government can't simply remove it if there isn't some other mechanism of support in society to help people in honest need of help, or popular vote will just replace SS with something else.

  9. #109
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    This is the fault of the government being irresponsible... Business owners have paid into the SS to match that of their employees. It was like a double tax and it was a different tax system altogether. The government has been taking the funds out and spending it elsewhere, where general taxes are usually spent (which are not double taxed). This gross abuse of the SS tax was a redistribution of wealth.. from the people to the government. The government owes the people that money as much as it owes China.
    Yes, I completely agree they owe that money. However, since the government's only way of getting money is taxation, the only way they can pay us back.... is by taking it from us again lol.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  10. #110
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    ever hear of the great depression?
    You're referring to that period of chronic economic crisis engendered by the Federal Reserve.

    If the Federal Reserve hadn't existed, the Great Depression would been just another recession.

    Given that the government used it's power to create the Great Depression, and given that government rarely does the right thing, how is it that, with the evidence that the government has screwed up social security as badly as it has that you want the government to keep running things and making them worse?

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