View Poll Results: Should the Young be allowed to Escape Paying In when they will never Draw Out?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • NO - I am over 40, and they should have to pay for me, even if they never draw out

    2 5.00%
  • YES - I am over 40, and they should be allowed to do so

    9 22.50%
  • SORTA - I'm over 40; they should be allowed to split their FICA between themselves and me

    3 7.50%
  • YES - I am under 40 and I would much rather not pay into an SS system I will never draw from

    21 52.50%
  • NO - I am under 40; I feel it's my obligation to pay the Boomers, though I will never see a dime

    5 12.50%
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Thread: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

  1. #91
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    Oh please... I never said it was. I am not saying I expect anything from anybody, however, I come from a family and have the attitude that people should care for other people. I help people and I do volunteer work. It's not my obligation to donate money to Haiti but I did. It's not obligation to work in a support group and help survivors of rape and incest in my community, but I do.

    I do those things, because I care about people and I care about my community. I am not forced to do by the government, and I am not arguing that it should be forced by the government. I simply feel it's my obligation as a human being to stop injustices.
    Well bully for you! You're not the only one who cares and does volunteer or charity work. However, that's the arena of te private citizen, not the responsibility of the government in forming a huge entitlement program under the erroneous assumption that people like you and me don't exist.

    I am complaining that this is an institutionalized attitude that needs to be changed... of course I know nobody is really obligated to help anybody else. All I am saying is that I find your attitude to be ****ty, and why an 80 year eating cat food would look to the government to help her before looking for a good and willing Samaritans in her community to help her.
    Lady, you don't know the first thing about me. You don't spend time with me one Saturday and one Sunday a month working with the AIDS Project delivering meals to shut in patients. You don't write the checks that I write to three different local charities and you don't see the automatic drafts from my bank account each month for ongoing contributions to two more. I don't give a flying **** how you find my attitude toward this issue because, frankly, I find your attitude of looking to a nebulous, institutional and establishment entity to force people to do what they should be doing for themselves to be weak minded and lazy. I find your lack of faith in your fellow man to be ****ty and a big part of the problem that allowed the SS fiasco to start with.

    You probably think liberals are the problem... when in fact, I think the liberals are trying to help because society is infected with people like you, not willing to help other people.
    I never made the first comment about conservatives or liberals but thank you very much for revealing what this discussion is to you: another chance to go stark raving mad with partisan cheerleading and condemnation of "the other guys". No wonder you have such little faith in your fellow man.

    Once you're 18, your family isn't obligated to do **** for you.
    But it's somehow the government and society's obligation now? And you don't see a problem with this picture you are painting?

    If you're 80 years old and eating cat food, you're parents are dead... and your kids might not give a **** about your old ass or have the money to support you.
    Then I would say there's a systemic problem in your family and the way you raised your kids.

    People don't want to feel like a burden at any stage in their life... When you're old, you lose your independence...
    You're gonna do that whether you're getting written a government check every month or not. How much more independent, though, to be surrounded by loved ones and to rely on the lifetime of bonding and love you built with those closest to you instead of relying on an inefficient government to come through with a promise it may or may not be able to keep?

    I know you don't care about your community or anybody else but your own... We have established your ****ty attitude is far from being a solution to these issues.
    You don't know jack ****, apparently. Caring for one's own is an expression of love and loyalty you apparently don't know **** about either.


    It is societies problem... Again, you are mistaken if you think ignoring the impoverished isn't going to affect you.
    No one said to ignore the impoverished.

    You can beat your drum on and on about this all you want,
    And you can cry and whine about the elderly holocaust that never happened all you want...

    but they have a right to vote and they might as well ignore your lecturing and scolding and vote for more social assistance if nothing else is done.
    And I have every right to make arguments for my viewpoint and join together in voting blocks with others who feel the same way I do. And hopefully, make SS a thing of the past one day.

    Then all you'll be able to do is keep repeating this tried old rhetoric, and repeating it, and repeating it... because you have nothing to offer.
    [/QUOTE]

    And all you'll be able to do is keep crying and whining...and cryig and whining because you aren't getting your government check in the mail anymore and might actually have to stand on your own two feet for once.
    Last edited by Nonplussed; 04-22-11 at 03:23 PM.

  2. #92
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    I really liked your post. It was dead on illustrative of the trouble you and most others are in. You need to be saving much more than SS taxes are taking from your check. Your daddy is financing you so your savings are essentially negative. When do you think you will start saving for retirement? Your daddy is essentially paying your SS taxes. Good thing too since you don’t know how to save yet and may never learn. Are you full time this year? How much do you expect to earn upon graduation? You can spend all of $50,000/year net w/o saving a bit for retirement. You wrote “I look at how expensive things are and then look at my paycheck and wonder how people are supposed to make ends meet without the help of others.” Hey, those others need to retire too. If we all had a Daddy we wouldn’t need SS; but there aren’t enough Daddies to go around. Are you spending your Daddy’s retirement? Is he just going to be left with a too small SS check at retirement?
    I have a lot in savings actually but it is in the form of loans I took out, put in a bank, and am making money off of it so when I graduate I will end up being able to pay it all back all at once and have made some money in the process. I do know how to save. My dad is an accountant as is my boyfriend. They have taught me well and continue to do so. I am not working right now because with my class schedule it is not feasible. I am looking for an internship for this summer or may just volunteer in my field so I can make money when I graduate. Considering I am majoring in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, I would hope I make a considerable amount of money once I graduate. I will know how to save and I plan on paying my father back over time. I realize I am very lucky to be in the family I am in. My dad makes a considerable amount of money so what he is paying me a month is very little. He will have money for retirement and by the time he is ready to do that I plan on being in a place where, if necessary, I can help him out.

    My boyfriend's dad did not plan at all for retirement. He worked at the university here and retires next friday. The only reason he has any money to spend during his retirement his because of his ex wife and his son who helped him. I do not think the government should be responsible for his retirement, he should have planned ahead but I'm fairly certain no one taught him along the way, when he was younger how to save. I think that is the key to most of the problems today. Educate people and we could all be fine.

  3. #93
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    My dad is physically disabled... I support him, he doesn't support me.
    Well bully for you again. Clearly her dad is in a position to help her. and good that he is. It's what a dad in his position should do.

  4. #94
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    That's enough emotional, hyperbole and exaggeration of what I said. If you want to keep living in a fantasy world, that's your prerogative.
    I'm not the one trying to emotionally extort capitulation for my arguments with fantasies about elderly people starving in the streets now am I?

  5. #95
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    It is a tax but all taxes have laws and regulations. Some people are exempt from paying into SS... some people are exempt from paying federal income taxes. Just because it's collected in the form of a tax doesn't mean it's ok or legal... If the federal government doesn't repay us the federal government is essentially violating their contract with the people. It would be like putting somebody who wouldn't ordinary owe federal taxes in the 10% income bracket without changing the laws and forcing them to pay, because the federal government wants some more money.
    That's exactly what it would be like (your last sentence). By the way, they can do it anytime they like. It's also like putting someone who would ordinarily owe 25% in the 35% bracket - all it takes is a simple change of tax law because the government wants/needs more money.

    If the federal govt. doesn't repay you, they're not violating any contract because they never promised you anything...
    Like I said, SOMEONE is going to have to bite the bullet on this. They don't HAVE any money to give out. You already paid in the money. It's not their anymore. This can be solved by the current working generations getting screwed, our kids' generation getting screwed or raising taxes overall and letting everyone get screwed.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  6. #96
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    I have a lot in savings actually but it is in the form of loans I took out, put in a bank, and am making money off of it so when I graduate I will end up being able to pay it all back all at once and have made some money in the process. I do know how to save. My dad is an accountant as is my boyfriend. They have taught me well and continue to do so. I am not working right now because with my class schedule it is not feasible. I am looking for an internship for this summer or may just volunteer in my field so I can make money when I graduate. Considering I am majoring in Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, I would hope I make a considerable amount of money once I graduate. I will know how to save and I plan on paying my father back over time. I realize I am very lucky to be in the family I am in. My dad makes a considerable amount of money so what he is paying me a month is very little. He will have money for retirement and by the time he is ready to do that I plan on being in a place where, if necessary, I can help him out.

    My boyfriend's dad did not plan at all for retirement. He worked at the university here and retires next friday. The only reason he has any money to spend during his retirement his because of his ex wife and his son who helped him. I do not think the government should be responsible for his retirement, he should have planned ahead but I'm fairly certain no one taught him along the way, when he was younger how to save. I think that is the key to most of the problems today. Educate people and we could all be fine.
    That's awesome. They didn't have aerospace engineering at columbia, so I ended up doing applied math. Are you planning on doing aeronautical, astronautical or something more in the mechanical field?
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

  7. #97
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nonplussed View Post
    Well bully for you! You're not the only one who cares and does volunteer or charity work. However, that's the arena of te private citizen, not the responsibility of the government in forming a huge entitlement program under the erroneous assumption that people like you and me don't exist.
    Again,

    STOP LECTURING ME

    Why do you insist on repeating the very things I said???

    I guess so you miss the bigger point I was trying to make....

    Lady, you don't know the first thing about me. You don't spend time with me one Saturday and one Sunday a month working with the AIDS Project delivering meals to shut in patients. You don't write the checks that I write to three different local charities and you don't see the automatic drafts from my bank account each month for ongoing contributions to two more. I don't give a flying **** how you find my attitude toward this issue because, frankly, I find your attitude of looking to a nebulous, institutional and establishment entity to force people to do what they should be doing for themselves to be weak minded and lazy. I find your lack of faith in your fellow man to be ****ty and a big part of the problem that allowed the SS fiasco to start with.
    Force people.... I never advocated any of the such. Again, maybe you should read my posts before writing your responses.

    I do have a lack of faith in the fellow man... The inaction of people is more a problem than my faith in it, and when I read your selfish statements about 80 year olds eating cat food it kind of reinforces that image I have of people. If you really care about your community as much as you claim, then why is so difficult for you to understand where I come from? I don't want to see an 80 year old eat cat food. I would do something about that myself. I expect other people to do it as well. I don't expect the government to force it.
    I never made the first comment about conservatives or liberals but thank you very much for revealing what this discussion is to you: another chance to go stark raving mad with partisan cheerleading and condemnation of "the other guys". No wonder you have such little faith in your fellow man.
    Look around the ****ing world and at the state of this country... it's pretty apparent that there is a lack of action and good will.

    But it's somehow the government and society's obligation now? And you don't see a problem with this picture you are painting?
    Again, I never said it's governments obligation...

    Then I would say there's a systemic problem in your family and the way you raised your kids.
    It's not my family... It's just not an uncommon occurrence that people don't have the money to support three generations of their family, especially in this economy. Other times people are selfish you know, and the government doesn't enforce us to care, love, or help our parents.

    You're gonna do that whether you're getting written a government check every month or not. How much more independent, though, to be surrounded by loved ones and to rely on the lifetime of bonding and love you built with those closest to you instead of relying on an inefficient government to come through with a promise it may or may not be able to keep?
    Ok... you probably live in some pro (heterosexual, pro life, religious) family values bubble, right?

    Well, maybe we just come from two different worlds because I happen to be involved with survivors of incest and abuse... I know a lot of people from very dysfunctional family backgrounds. Some people don't have the luxury of depending on a family that treats with basic respect or kindness.

    You don't know jack ****, apparently. Caring for one's own is an expression of love and loyalty you apparently don't know **** about either.
    Some people don't know about loving families... it doesn't make them ignorant or stupid. It's just a fact of reality.

    And you can cry and whine about the elderly holocaust that never happened all you want...
    You're still clinging to this strawman?

    And I have every right to make arguments for my viewpoint and join together in voting blocks with others who feel the same way I do. And hopefully, make SS a thing of the past one day.
    It's ideal that society could do away with SS and everybody would have a comfortable life, which is something I would throw my support behind and help make the necessary changes myself. It will take community involvement and caring for the 80 year olds eating cat food, and it will take rebuilding everybody's faith in man and in the community.

    Lecturing people and telling us that you're not obligated to give a ****, isn't going to accomplish anything.

    And all you'll be able to do is keep crying and whining...and cryig and whining because you aren't getting your government check in the mail anymore and might actually have to stand on your own two feet for once.
    I have never received a check from the government.... For somebody crying about assumptions, you're quick to make them yourself.

  8. #98
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamitter View Post
    That's exactly what it would be like (your last sentence). By the way, they can do it anytime they like. It's also like putting someone who would ordinarily owe 25% in the 35% bracket - all it takes is a simple change of tax law because the government wants/needs more money.

    If the federal govt. doesn't repay you, they're not violating any contract because they never promised you anything...
    Like I said, SOMEONE is going to have to bite the bullet on this. They don't HAVE any money to give out. You already paid in the money. It's not their anymore. This can be solved by the current working generations getting screwed, our kids' generation getting screwed or raising taxes overall and letting everyone get screwed.
    My last sentence said... without changing the tax law... The SS tax isn't a general federal tax, it's a SS tax. That's the difference... To spend the SS tax on everything, especially after making individuals and business owners pay twice into the tax funds for a specific purpose, and not repay it would be a gross abuse of the tax law.. We should expect more from our government than this.

  9. #99
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    My last sentence said... without changing the tax law... The SS tax isn't a general federal tax, it's a SS tax. That's the difference... To spend the SS tax on everything, especially after making individuals and business owners pay twice into the tax funds for a specific purpose, and not repay it would be a gross abuse of the tax law.. We should expect more from our government than this.
    Given the nature of SS, if it was ended, in my opinion the tax would have to be ended as well and the SS fund be paided out in rebates to those that have paid into it (proportionally based on what individuals have paid into it)

    Which of course would result in a massive tax increase as the government does not have the money currently to pay out the few trillion dollars that the SS has in reserve ( currently held as US bonds)
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  10. #100
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    Re: Should the Young be Allowed to Opt Out?

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    My last sentence said... without changing the tax law... The SS tax isn't a general federal tax, it's a SS tax. That's the difference... To spend the SS tax on everything, especially after making individuals and business owners pay twice into the tax funds for a specific purpose, and not repay it would be a gross abuse of the tax law.. We should expect more from our government than this.
    Yeah, but a principled stand won't work with our government. We don't have any money to dish out. It is a gross abuse... but its going to happen sooner or later. That's the problem with SS paying out so much money to people who didn't pay it in earlier. The govt. is either going to start taking a lot more now to dish out less later or just tell us to piss off. We're getting screwed one way or another.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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