View Poll Results: Would you give up your Social Security?

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  • Yes, I am under 40

    19 37.25%
  • No, I am under 40

    11 21.57%
  • Yes, I am over 40

    7 13.73%
  • No, I am over 40

    14 27.45%
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Thread: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

  1. #121
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    except you were never promised what you paid in.
    Last I checked no one was 'promised' anything. Social Security withholding isnt a choice or an option. Your money is withheld from you for a government program that is designed to pay you a certain return. I get annual statements that show me what I can expect to receive based on what i have payed in (again...bad terminology...I haven't 'paid'...the fed has taken from me without choice). So if you are positing about would we or should we you have to allow for some latitude regarding what people have been 'promised'.

    I would be absolutely fine with the Fed giving me back MY money which they took without any say from me. I would gladly fore go any social security offerings and would gladly sign a contract that would make me and my family solely responsible for my long term care. Provided that they returned to me what they have taken for this program.

  2. #122
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    I find it amazing that people on this board can continuously call social security a pension when the AVERAGE payout is 1,177.00, thats average which means just as many GET LESS than get more, the max payment for SS that only the richest of us can qualify for is 2.366.00 which only the richest of american can qualify for.
    I also find it incredible that so many of the richer americans on this forum cant even REALIZE that there are people that cannot survive without that little bit of SS and medicare..and I cant believe that there are so many miserable self centered rich americans that cant REALIZE that the working poor and lower middle class workes...Walmart type workers DO NOT make enough money to save for their retirements and health benefits and still by lifes necessities...and I cant believe that the richest of americans cant figure out that they WILL PAY eventually anyway and pay more. I dont like this new america and ive been here alot longer than most of you and I certainly do NOT like this new republican party...Im staying a republican only so I can vote against teaparty brats in the primaries
    Last edited by lpast; 04-19-11 at 01:56 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    holy cow. you are either lying or very ignorant. since you don't get ss, would you give up your teacher's pension? after all, taxpayers fund that as well.
    14...lying or ignorant...you are on a tear today arent you?

    Heres the basic reality. Every person that has worked has been forced under the threat of prison to pay taxes. Those taxes were not collected just for the operation of the country and spent by a responsible governing body. Those taxes TAKEN without say by citizens of the country were obligated to certain programs for people 'own good' whether they like them or not. Now you would suggest that people that have a reasonable expectation to receive back those funds which have been taken from them are hypocrites because even though they oppose government social programs they wont give up any claim to THEIR OWN MONEY which was taken from them for said programs. Its kind of a silly position to take, Lib...

  4. #124
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I find it amazing that people on this board can continuously call social security a pension when the AVERAGE payout is 1,177.00, thats average which means just as many GET LESS than get more, the max payment for SS that only the richest of us can qualify for is 2.366.00 which only the richest of american can qualify for.
    I also find it incredible that so many of the richer americans on this forum cant even REALIZE that there are people that cannot survive without that little bit of SS and medicare..and I cant believe that there are so many miserable self centered rich americans that cant REALIZE that the working poor and lower middle class workes...Walmart type workers DO NOT make enough money to save for their retirements and health benefits and still by lifes necessities...and I cant believe that the richest of americans cant figure out that they WILL PAY eventually anyway and pay more. I dont like this new america and ive been here alot longer than most of you and I certainly do NOT like this new republican party...Im staying a republican only so I can vote against teaparty brats in the primaries
    Im not sure you have a very good grasp on peoples objections to programs like this or social spending in general. The basic reality is that unless things are done with social security the system will fail. Unless something is done with social spending the sytems will fail. We as a country are 14.5 trillion dollars in DEBT. Thats not a wealthy nation taking care of its poor...thats an irresponsible nation digging an early financial grave for their grandchildren...saddling THEM with debt they had no responsibility in incurring. You say Tea Party brats...OK...thats fine...those 'brats' believe the government should be fiscally responsible. Those 'brats' believe you cant just keep upping the debt ceiling as an answer to every problem. Honest to God...who is the 'brat'... people that insist on fiscal accountability or whiny ****s living their lives on feelings and other peoples dime?

  5. #125
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    14...lying or ignorant...you are on a tear today arent you?

    Heres the basic reality. Every person that has worked has been forced under the threat of prison to pay taxes. Those taxes were not collected just for the operation of the country and spent by a responsible governing body. Those taxes TAKEN without say by citizens of the country were obligated to certain programs for people 'own good' whether they like them or not. Now you would suggest that people that have a reasonable expectation to receive back those funds which have been taken from them are hypocrites because even though they oppose government social programs they wont give up any claim to THEIR OWN MONEY which was taken from them for said programs. Its kind of a silly position to take, Lib...
    Vance I agree with alot of your post, but theres something your forgetting the middleclass paid taxs all their lives too and what they paid in taxs HURT THEM just as much as the wealthiests taxpayers who paid more its all relative.
    We are in debt no doubt we need to cut spending no doubt we need to cut entitlements I agree..we DO NOT NEED TO eliminate most of the wealthiest americans tax burden and put it on the middle class....because the POOR cant pay.
    You cant eliminate or change the numbers...the rich have gotten fabulously richer while paying taxs and the working class has stagnated...now the teaparty wants mOAR and mOAR ...enough of the whining please

  6. #126
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    This is a great example of a good conservative argument... i like, just the problem is there are a lot of people that just want to break that system to it's very core; people try to get away as far as possible from the "the son bears the sins of the father" deal... people want to be absolute individuals where family doesnt really exist or play a part in it's original way, because there are f'd up families out there... But i think this way of thinking actually makes it worse then actually better( looking at other cultures like Japan)... idk im borderline conservative in this fashion.
    I think the reason you see so many screwed up families now, too, is because the incentives to be good to family are also deteriorating. When grandma isn't in a position of needing to maintain good relations with the kids after they grow up because the dependancy and need for them isn't there anymore, of course little petty differences grow and take a life of their own. Children stray from their parents sooner and parents let them do it more easily. Bonds that were necessary now break with ease and a culture of hyper individuality is emerging in the absence of strong family values.

  7. #127
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Vance I agree with alot of your post, but theres something your forgetting the middleclass paid taxs all their lives too and what they paid in taxs HURT THEM just as much as the wealthiests taxpayers who paid more its all relative.
    We are in debt no doubt we need to cut spending no doubt we need to cut entitlements I agree..we DO NOT NEED TO eliminate most of the wealthiest americans tax burden and put it on the middle class....because the POOR cant pay.
    You cant eliminate or change the numbers...the rich have gotten fabulously richer while paying taxs and the working class has stagnated...now the teaparty wants mOAR and mOAR ...enough of the whining please
    IPast...the reality is that a great majority pay very little in taxes to support this country. Frankly, the class warfare thing annoys the piss out of me. Ive busted my ass to succeed. I dont begrudge those that have more than me but Im very tired of all the people that whine about how unfair their life is. I didnt fall into wealth...I busted my ass for 30 years planning for this point.

    The rich get rich...and many poor and low to middle income people get rich as well. Hard work. Personal responsibility. Oh how I wish they would teach THAT in school instead of all the mindless social handwringing and bull****.

    You do get that the 'tax cuts' do not mean that the rich pay no taxes but that they pay a lower percentage of taxes than they paid before...right? They still pay for those programs...many of which they will never use. Seriously...look up who actually pays for what in this country.

  8. #128
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    I essentially divide Social Security proponents into 4 categories:

    1) Old and scared - These are the Baby Boomers and older people who bought into the lies and propaganda that "the government is stealing your money" and "they just want you to die quickly and cheaply". It's rather annoying, because even the most staunchly conservative or radical opponents of Social Security have no intention of denying people who have paid into the system their whole lives from getting back their due. It's basically the left-wing performing sensationalism and fear tactics.

    2) Uneducated - These are the people who, quite frankly, know jack about the system and how it works. They're the ones who don't know that it was part of a socialist system by, in my opinion, THE worst American president by far: Captain NewDeal. When this was proposed 80ish years ago, the magic age was 65. Today's magic age? 65. The difference, you might ask? Today's average American life span is 77 years. In the early 30s? 62. This was designed to cover people who, essentially, "beat the system" by outliving the mean average. This is why back in those days there was a 16:1 ratio of pay-in to pay-out, and today it's less than 4:1. The vast majority of people who collect Social Security were not originally designed to be collectors in the system when it was implemented. It's an example of Keynesian economics run amok to a detrimental level.

    3) Fiscally irresponsible - These are the people who worship at the altar of Big Government, think they know what is best for them and everyone else, and is more than willing to blindly hand over money because they think they can do it better. Track records have shown that, clearly, they can't. It's not hard to pick up the phone and call a financial expert, head down to the bank and grab a low-risk CD, or just do 5 minutes of research to find something to invest in. They'd rather slave away, numb from the head up, and wait for Big Brother to make all their decisions.

    4) Lazy - These are people who just refuse to do a little bit of homework and want other horses to pull the cart. They may not trust the government, but they don't have the willpower, common sense, or the balls to stand up and do what it takes. Much like the fiscally irresponsible, they just give over money to the giant con-artists in Washington and cross their fingers that they know what's best.

    Quite frankly, I've never seen any argument supporting Social Security that cannot be tucked into one or more of these brief explanations.

  9. #129
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    I find it amazing that people on this board can continuously call social security a pension
    that is how people treat it. and they don't save because of it.

    when the AVERAGE payout is 1,177.00, thats average which means just as many GET LESS than get more
    yup. what a well-run program, eh?

    I also find it incredible that so many of the richer americans on this forum cant even REALIZE that there are people that cannot survive without that little bit of SS and medicare
    actually i think imagep and myself have demonstrated how anyone can retire with financial independence for about 40 bucks a week.

    if people depend on those programs (and they do), then that is because they failed to properly plan for themselves, not - generally - because of circumstances outside of their control.

    however, you are correct that current retirees depend on them, and that is why I'm glad that the Ryan Budget (in contrast to the Presidents' "plan") doesn't effect current retirees. or even anyone over the age of 55.

    this gives those of us 55 and below the ability to plan in surer knowledge of what will be available when we retire.

    and I cant believe that there are so many miserable self centered rich americans that cant REALIZE that the working poor and lower middle class workes...Walmart type workers DO NOT make enough money to save for their retirements and health benefits and still by lifes necessities
    actually they do. I was doing it when I rated foodstamps, with a wife and a bouncing new baby boy. it's called "living within your means", "staying out of debt" and "using a budget".

  10. #130
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    Re: Are YOU willing to give up YOUR Social Security?

    Since social security will be bankrupt by the time I reach 65 (Im 26 now) providing I make it that far which I probably wont, I would give up social security. Obviously a refund would be impossible but I have no problem with cutting my losses and moving on.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

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