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The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

w will this budget affect the 2012 election?


  • Total voters
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14.5 trillion in debt....increasing debt to 15.5 by the end of this FY. Congress that spends money like crack addicts. World investors that are on the verge of killing our credit rating. A dependent class that wants more spending...more money. Oh yes...you are 'on' to the conservative game plan...debt reduction and avoidig a financial collapse.

Right, throwing the old and sick to the street are going to get the GOP elected in 2012? You do realize that the elderly are the only sizable block of voters the GOP has, do you not? Tally ho then! Its going to be a fun election!
 
Right, throwing the old and sick to the street are going to get the GOP elected in 2012? You do realize that the elderly are the only sizable block of voters the GOP has, do you not? Tally ho then! Its going to be a fun election!

Only to people that are stupid enough to believe that is what the plan does. :roll:

The debt must be dealt with. I have stated it needs to be a combination of across the board cuts AND an increase in taxes. I have no doubt that the 2012 election is going to be a disgusting partisan crapfest littered with the same kind of **** you have been posting. Its going to be disgusting...and ultimately...instead of doing what needs to be done for the fiscal future of this country its going to be more of the same childish garbage that has put us in what will be a 15.5 trillion dollar hole by the end of this fiscal year. You should swell with pride.
 
Only to people that are stupid enough to believe that is what the plan does. :roll:

I do not believe the American people are as stupid as you do. I wager they will make the correct decision in 2012.

The debt must be dealt with.

I agree there is much that needs to be cut, we just have different priorities for what needs to be cut.


I have stated it needs to be a combination of across the board cuts AND an increase in taxes. I have no doubt that the 2012 election is going to be a disgusting partisan crapfest littered with the same kind of **** you have been posting. Its going to be disgusting...and ultimately...instead of doing what needs to be done for the fiscal future of this country its going to be more of the same childish garbage that has put us in what will be a 15.5 trillion dollar hole by the end of this fiscal year. You should swell with pride.

Since our trickle down economic policies of the last 30 years brought about the debt problems we have today, those that benefitted from it for 30 years are the ones that need to ante up now, not make further hardship for those that did not benefit from the trickle down policies over the last 30 years.

A class war has been waged against the middle class by the GOP over the last 30 years and it is inspiring to see the middle class begin to fight back.
 
I do not believe the American people are as stupid as you do. I wager they will make the correct decision in 2012.
I agree there is much that needs to be cut, we just have different priorities for what needs to be cut.
Since our trickle down economic policies of the last 30 years brought about the debt problems we have today, those that benefitted from it for 30 years are the ones that need to ante up now, not make further hardship for those that did not benefit from the trickle down policies over the last 30 years.
A class war has been waged against the middle class by the GOP over the last 30 years and it is inspiring to see the middle class begin to fight back.

The dems will be counting on weak minded fools in 2012...people that will swallow the whole "republicans are for killing children, women and old people" bull**** that they spewed during the recent budget spat....a battle that wouldnt have been required had the democrats actually bothered to submit and pass a budget when they controlled the house, senate, and White House-you know...done their job. Their rhetoric is pathetic...but they should have hope...because they will have plenty that will vote for more handouts and free gov cheese. The same crippled and dependent pets that have put them in power will be right there in 2012. They dont care how much debt is incurred, because really...its not like they will ever be responsible for paying the bill.
 
The dems will be counting on weak minded fools in 2012...people that will swallow the whole "republicans are for killing children, women and old people" bull**** that they spewed during the recent budget spat....a battle that wouldnt have been required had the democrats actually bothered to submit and pass a budget when they controlled the house, senate, and White House-you know...done their job. Their rhetoric is pathetic...but they should have hope...because they will have plenty that will vote for more handouts and free gov cheese. The same crippled and dependent pets that have put them in power will be right there in 2012. They dont care how much debt is incurred, because really...its not like they will ever be responsible for paying the bill.

You have a very low opinion of the majority of your fellow Americans that I do not share. The Repubs have brought this on themselves. Pain has a way of sharpening a voter's senses, and it has become clear through the current promotion of tax-cuts-for-the-rich-will-fix-everything, which side it is that promotes the source of that pain.

Ryan's budget proposal lays out for all to see that the GOP is waging class warfare against the working class in this country. This together with the state GOP attacks on worker's rights have resulted in a reawakening within the middle class of the false promises made by the GOP in 2000. Its a slap in the face to the working class, but it definitely got their attention!
 
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So what we get from all that is that 2020 for insolvency is not accurate

that's not what we get at all; what we get is that the 2020 date is accurate for the portion of Medicare that is funded by FICA. the portion that isn't is probably screwed prior to that, as the General Fund will be increasingly absorbed by other parts of the entitlement system.

that in fact solutions exist that do not in essence destroy Medicare

that is correct. for example, we could switch people under the age of 56 to a premium-support model, which would utilize market pressure to reduce prices.

and a program which adds to the public debt is bad only if it was not enacted by republicans(Part D)

Part D should have been paid for - but so should the other portions of Medicare that are dependent on the General Fund (as D was).

however, since we are on the subject of D, it is worth bringing up that your point here:

By the way, while Ryan's plan does address the problem, it is just about the worst possible solution, especially since it does nothing with the underlying problem, which is the fact health care costs grow significantly faster than inflation

is mooted by the Ryan plan, which functions very similarly to D. D, of course, utilized market pressure on healthcare prices and came in 40% under budget. when Indiana offered their public employees an HSA option, which utilizes market pressure on healthcare prices (as does Ryan's plan), they saw an 11% decrease in costs in their first couple of years. not a decrease in growth of costs. not a decrease off of the projected baseline. a straight up no - spin decrease in costs.
 
Just like what the Republications would do under the same situation. Amazing just how much alike their political scheming is.

:) it's almost as if they are politicians..... :p.

but seriously, i think the Republicans deserve props for actually coming out and putting something serious forward. it was a risky move, and the political wisdom was not to do it.
 
Yeah, it will be, and yeah, it's sad. I despise dishonest rhetoric, no matter who does it.

:( i have a feeling you are in for a dissapointing election.
 
Only to people that are stupid enough to believe that is what the plan does. :roll:

The debt must be dealt with. I have stated it needs to be a combination of across the board cuts AND an increase in taxes. I have no doubt that the 2012 election is going to be a disgusting partisan crapfest littered with the same kind of **** you have been posting. Its going to be disgusting...and ultimately...instead of doing what needs to be done for the fiscal future of this country its going to be more of the same childish garbage that has put us in what will be a 15.5 trillion dollar hole by the end of this fiscal year. You should swell with pride.

You inadvertently hit on exactly what the entire problem is vance.

The debt must be dealt with. I have stated it needs to be a combination of across the board cuts AND an increase in taxes.

The above statement you made is precisely whats WRONG with Paul Ryans plan...he does NOT have across the board cuts he only cuts and takes from the middle class...not only doesnt he include an increase in taxs but he wants literally huge across the board tax CUTS for only the wealthiest americans...Paul Ryans plan is DOA and the teaparty brats had better get off their playbook from Hitlers SS and Gestapo rhetoric...WE WANT WHAT WE WANT AND WE WILL NOT COMPROMISE well screw you teaparty and all the horses you took from the middle class to ride in on..:) hah I liked that one lol
 
Wow, nice godwining there.

How about actually talking about Ryan's plan honestly and realistically, in that along with the "broad tax cuts" primarily for the wealthiest Americans that he also is removing hordes of exemptions, primarily used to most effect by the wealthiest Americans?
 
How will this budget affect the 2012 election?

  • It will help Obama/Democrats
  • It will help Republicans
  • Don't know
  • No change

It depends on how much attention the budget gets, but it could help the GOP with their base and help the Dems with everybody else.
 
There were people that were gungho teaparty Nov2nd that arent for them any longer..I am one and I know others and im sure theres more middleclass republicans that are becoming aware of what the teaparty is about.
I have no crystal ball but the Ryan plan has more potential to hurt republicans than democrats with ANOTHER huge tax reduction just for the wealthiest and corporations and of course having the middle class pay through the nose for debt reduction while they enjoy another windfall. Middleclass is going to wake up to that

You have a point. You can't just expect the middle class to take a hit and lose entitlements. If they have to lose some, so should the wealthy... A tax increase on them would be far. We can't expect the middle to give everything up, and not the wealthy.
 
Wow, nice godwining there.

How about actually talking about Ryan's plan honestly and realistically, in that along with the "broad tax cuts" primarily for the wealthiest Americans that he also is removing hordes of exemptions, primarily used to most effect by the wealthiest Americans?

he hasnt named a one
 
You have a point. You can't just expect the middle class to take a hit and lose entitlements. If they have to lose some, so should the wealthy... A tax increase on them would be far. We can't expect the middle to give everything up, and not the wealthy.

A post chock full of common sense...Im not professing tax increases on the wealthy I never did...but the teaparty brats have proven the republican party is NOT for a working american...they have proven the teaparty wants the republican party to outwardly be the party of the rich...if the gop allows this perception to continue they will slide into a big pit and stay there
 
A post chock full of common sense...Im not professing tax increases on the wealthy I never did...but the teaparty brats have proven the republican party is NOT for a working american...they have proven the teaparty wants the republican party to outwardly be the party of the rich...if the gop allows this perception to continue they will slide into a big pit and stay there

One economic class loses, another gains...

BTW... I hate hearing politicians saying we need to tighten our belts. I just graduated college, and I am living with my parents while I pay down some of my debt. I drive a beat up car, and I need a new one, but you know... my belt is pretty ****ing tight as it is. My belt was tight all through college. It can't get any damn tighter.
 
14.5 trillion in debt....World investors that are on the verge of killing our credit rating.

It's just more political maneuvering. Don't worry about it. The rest of the world is in worse financial condition than we are. We could easily run the National Debt up to 20 trillion or more and still be the safest credit risk.

Actually the present National Debt percentage of Federal outlay of 11.5 percent is far less than the 20.1 percent Regan ran up in 1988.

As I said, beware of political tricks

ricksfolly
 
You have a point. You can't just expect the middle class to take a hit and lose entitlements. If they have to lose some, so should the wealthy

and since the Ryan plan also means-tests the entitlements; aren't they losing more?
 
Wow, nice godwining there.

How about actually talking about Ryan's plan honestly and realistically, in that along with the "broad tax cuts" primarily for the wealthiest Americans that he also is removing hordes of exemptions, primarily used to most effect by the wealthiest Americans?

i've tried to engage him on that front on multiple occasions. I'm thinking he just comes here to post rants and then leaves.
 
It's just more political maneuvering. Don't worry about it.

HAH. S&P isn't a political maneuver, its' the dumb money. The Credit Rating Agencies are the last to know when something is about to go belly up - they rated Enron as solid gold right up until the point where it crashed and told everyone who would listen that mortgage backed securities would never fail - and finally even they are waking up to how screwed we are. The smart money got out of bonds months ago; PIMPCO (the worlds' largest bond fund) dumped every US treasury it owned, following the lead of the hedge funds. Foriegn oil exporting states have stopped buying bonds and started dumping them. We just lost Japan. The only reason that our bond rate is currently as low as it is is becaues the Fed is printing money like a mad man and buying them to depress the price. Once that stops in June (or, potentially if we don't raise the debt ceiling - though there is no reason to suspect that this means we will have to default; that's a political talking point unrelated to reality), then the balloon goes up and we will see what our notes are really worth.

this is exacerbated by the fact that foreign entities are purchasing overwhelmingly shorter maturities; making us incredibly vulnerable to a hike spike.

if you're not worried now, then you are either uninformed, not living in the US, or smoking something good.

The rest of the world is in worse financial condition than we are. We could easily run the National Debt up to 20 trillion or more and still be the safest credit risk.

actually there are multiple entities now that enjoy lower borrowing costs than we do.

Who has better credit than Uncle Sam? If you ask the bond market, that elite list includes Berkshire Hathaway, Procter & Gamble, Lowe’s, Johnson & Johnson, and a host of other blue-chip corporate borrowers. The U.S. government has the ability to levy taxes on the largest national economy in the world, a vast and fearsome revenue-collection apparatus, and more than two centuries of constitutional government under its belt. P&G has Tampax...


Actually the present National Debt percentage of Federal outlay of 11.5 percent is far less than the 20.1 percent Regan ran up in 1988.

except that government spending as a percent of GDP was also much smaller back then, he was facing an entitlement and debt crises, a much larger percentage of the debt was in longer maturities, and so it could be covered.

Without reforms, by 2022, future revenues will only cover Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and interest on the debt. That means we will have to give up the FBI, the DOD, the Agricultural Department, the Department of Education... By 2046, revenues won’t even cover interest costs.
 
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It's just more political maneuvering. Don't worry about it. The rest of the world is in worse financial condition than we are. We could easily run the National Debt up to 20 trillion or more and still be the safest credit risk.

Actually the present National Debt percentage of Federal outlay of 11.5 percent is far less than the 20.1 percent Regan ran up in 1988.

As I said, beware of political tricks

ricksfolly

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

Dood...it ain't smoke and mirrors. That 14.5 trillion...the reality is that would be devastating enough but it likely isn't close what our debt is. Just like that constant 10% unemployment doesn't represent what our actual unemployment is.
 
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

Dood...it ain't smoke and mirrors. That 14.5 trillion...the reality is that would be devastating enough but it likely isn't close what our debt is. Just like that constant 10% unemployment doesn't represent what our actual unemployment is.

The economy is not that bad off, if it was we would not be waging multible optional wars and we wouldn't still be voluntarily reducing our income as we have done for the last 30 years. We will know things are serious when they end our optional wars and stop giving tax cuts to rich people that don't need them. :sun
 
The economy is not that bad off, if it was we would not be waging multible optional wars and we wouldn't still be voluntarily reducing our income as we have done for the last 30 years. We will know things are serious when they end our optional wars and stop giving tax cuts to rich people that don't need them. :sun

As long as the economy can still support the handout set, then the economy is foooooooooiiiiiiiinnnnnnneeee. As long as someone elses children and grandchildren get stuck with the debt...no worries. That unemployment is well over the national average in many states with no end in sight...no worries.

Yep...all you have to do is grab the pitchforks and storm the rich peoples mansions and steal there stuff...because...after all...that would be fair...then everything is fine....
 
As long as the economy can still support the handout set, then the economy is foooooooooiiiiiiiinnnnnnneeee. As long as someone elses children and grandchildren get stuck with the debt...no worries. That unemployment is well over the national average in many states with no end in sight...no worries.

Yep...all you have to do is grab the pitchforks and storm the rich peoples mansions and steal there stuff...because...after all...that would be fair...then everything is fine....

Yeah our forefathers were socialists. I've heard that unsubstantiated claim before. Believe whatever floats your boat. I agree with the rule of law in this country for the last 8 decades that have determined that SS and M/M are Constitutional.
 
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As long as the economy can still support the handout set, then the economy is foooooooooiiiiiiiinnnnnnneeee. As long as someone elses children and grandchildren get stuck with the debt...no worries. That unemployment is well over the national average in many states with no end in sight...no worries.

Yep...all you have to do is grab the pitchforks and storm the rich peoples mansions and steal there stuff...because...after all...that would be fair...then everything is fine....

see, if we just kill the goose that lays the golden eggs...then we will get all the gold inside....
 
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