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The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

w will this budget affect the 2012 election?


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well, if he didn't want to get outed like that then he should have joined the rest of us in offering his firstborn to the service of our Prophet Sarah (pbuh).

Damn you sir, I can't stop laughing now. Very well played.
 
Medicare would go away, seniors would be given a voucher to buy health insurance. What insurance company is going sell insurance to a senior?

one that thinks it can make money on it. which probably means a high-deductible plan with catastrophic coverage.

which is what the market should look like anyway. expecting medical insurance to cover your twice-a-year checkup is like expecting your auto insurance to cover your oil changes.


redress said:
Damn you sir, I can't stop laughing now. Very well played.

:D i will admit in my less humbler moment, i was quite tickled with that one :D



although (and perhaps this is a better topic for another thread) increasingly i'm coming to the opinion that her supporters are more a Cult of Personality than any kind of solid ideological block. :( she is to conservatives what Obama was to many liberals- she may not have lots of experience, or any, you know, strong demonstrated executive ability, but darn doesn't she talk to us pretty.
 
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If they stop lying about what's in the bill, it will help the Republicans.

Barb, even the Tea Party thinks we can reduce the deficit without cutting their favorite social programs (Medicare and SS).
The Tea Party favors them by a super majority and doesn't want them cut.

So far reality hasn't met with most Americans fantasy of what costs our government the most.
 
and that is the sad truth. and that's what this thread really boils down to - how good will the Republicans prove to be as educators? we can't (sadly) turn all of them in to Paul Ryan.
 
and that is the sad truth. and that's what this thread really boils down to - how good will the Republicans prove to be as educators? we can't (sadly) turn all of them in to Paul Ryan.

It's not really the educator part that's the problem, it's the "it's mine, I paid for it" mentality that will be near impossible to overcome.

Freedom (like real freedom, not this stupid stability idea of freedom) is not popular with most people.
 
You do realize that not EVERYONE is a "Partisan" hack?

Of course. Those who can admit that we need to raise taxes and cut entitlements aren't hacks. Those who realize that nuclear power, modified from its current mainstream designs and funding methods is absolutely vital aren't hacks. Those who realize that both parties are cancers upon the American population aren't hacks.

Meaning maybe 5 out of 100 users here aren't hacks.

That said, you still did call the Speaker of the House (my bad, not Cantor) and Senate Minority leader are "mentally deficient."

And put the quotes above your reply.
 
Theres no doubt deep cuts need to be made, Im certainly not denying that. I dont deny SS and medicare and Medicaid have to take hits. My issue is soley with cut the richs taxs to the bone...cut SS medicare to the bone and make the middleclass pay for the debt reduction...that is not going to float when whats actually in Ryans Plan becomes more common knowledge.
Ryan has the ordasity to whine incessantly how broke we are how deep in debt, he rails on Social Security and Medicare and then he wants to give the wealthiest ANOTHER 27% tax cut and corporations lol...yeah ok surrrre Ill buy that
Note: NO where did I say to raise taxs on the rich either...but enough with the tax cuts, while everyone else is getting hammered
 
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It's not really the educator part that's the problem, it's the "it's mine, I paid for it" mentality that will be near impossible to overcome.

Freedom (like real freedom, not this stupid stability idea of freedom) is not popular with most people.

even after it all, i remain an optimist. If we can just demonstrate to Americans the severity and nature of the problem, I remain convinced they will be able to rise to the challenge.



......but i have been dissapointed before :shrug: I hear Australia is nice.
 
Theres no doubt deep cuts need to be made, Im certainly not denying that. I dont deny SS and medicare and Medicaid have to take hits. My issue is soley with cut the richs taxs to the bone

then you will be happy to hear that the Ryan Budget achieves tax neutrality, and closes out the loopholes, corporate welfare, twists, special favors, and arcanic rules in the tax code that allow large businesses such as GE and the wealthy to not pay taxes?

...cut SS medicare to the bone and make the middleclass pay for the debt reduction...that is not going to float when whats actually in Ryans Plan becomes more common knowledge.

the vast majority of our spending is on the middle class. there is no way to cut without cutting that.

Ryan has the ordasity to whine incessantly how broke we are how deep in debt, he rails on Social Security and Medicare and then he wants to give the wealthiest ANOTHER 27% tax cut

actually he doesn't. the wealthy will pay not one dime less under Ryan's plan.

Note: NO where did I say to raise taxs on the rich either.

so you, too, are in favor of tax revenue neutrality? just like Ryan?
 
even after it all, i remain an optimist. If we can just demonstrate to Americans the severity and nature of the problem, I remain convinced they will be able to rise to the challenge.



......but i have been dissapointed before :shrug: I hear Australia is nice.

I don't try to be a cynic but I think it's more realistic.

The way things are going and have been going pretty much fall in line with what Tocqueville predicted.
The whole freedom to servitude eventuality.

The richer a nation gets, the more stability it wants, which destabilizes the whole reason it got rich in the first place.
 
I think you are thinking of the famous quote attributed to Tytler:

A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years.

Great nations rise and fall. The people go from bondage to spiritual truth, to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependence, from dependence back again to bondage.​
 
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many adults act like children.



and are so OBVIOUS that no doubt you don't feel the need to actually - you know - list any? I don't pretend to have mastery of the subject, but I am obsessed with it, and will be more than happy to point you to what I know and where I have found that you could find more.

Ok, now maybe we're getting somewhere.

I have asked questions in threads where you are active and seen mine and others simplistically dismissed by you.

So in future maybe some discussion can happen.

And I get that you obsess. I do the samr thing about PR industry "persuasion".

Just bear in mind that other people who aren't idiots do disagree with some of your presumptions and only possible solutions. There is a vested interest in people believing as you do and a considerable amount of money is spent reinforcing said beliefs.

I suspect that some of the programs you summarily pronounce DOA could probably be repaired in some fashion that doesnt actually destroy them and that is what the majority want. It may simply require belts being tightened that are not generally subject to tightening.

Here's to actual debate moving forward.:2wave:
 
Are there any conservatives that want to have an actual discussion on the topic, or are you guys going to just stick with mindless one liner namecalling?

did I call someone a name? Perhaps you should report me to a moderator then. Otherwise........
 
No need to lie about it for it to hurt republicans. Just point to Medicare changes. Just point to the changes to tax code.

The tax code where Dems say Ryan's plan will give tax breaks for the rich, neglecting to say his plan does away with loop holes (tax breaks) and will put the rich on the same playing field as small business?
As far as Medicare, his plan needs work, but the elderly, disabled and autistic children will not be "left to fend for themselves":roll:
 
Ryans bill takes money from the old, the disabled, the autistic children and gives it to the rich.

Ryan's bill specifically does take from programs that benefit those people, and does reduce tax costs of the wealthy. That is part of his bill Barb.
 
The tax code where Dems say Ryan's plan will give tax breaks for the rich, neglecting to say his plan does away with loop holes (tax breaks) and will put the rich on the same playing field as small business?
As far as Medicare, his plan needs work, but the elderly, disabled and autistic children will not be "left to fend for themselves":roll:

what loopholes will he do away with?
 
something has to give people. Somethign has to be cut... someplace. We cannot tackle the debt and deficit issues by just taxing rich people, it won't work. We cannot even do it by taxing everybody (see other thread). There will HAVE to be changes in taxation, yes. But coupled with drastic spending cuts... yes, some popular programs will suffer. That's just the reality of the situation.
 
The tax code where Dems say Ryan's plan will give tax breaks for the rich, neglecting to say his plan does away with loop holes (tax breaks) and will put the rich on the same playing field as small business?
As far as Medicare, his plan needs work, but the elderly, disabled and autistic children will not be "left to fend for themselves":roll:

Ryan's plan does do the following(source:A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans):

Eliminates the Alternative Minimum Tax. This benefits only the rich

Eliminates taxes on capital gains, interest, and dividends. This benefits the rich much more than any one else.

Eliminates the socalled death tax. This benefits only the rich.

Massively reduces corporate taxes.
 
something has to give people. Somethign has to be cut... someplace. We cannot tackle the debt and deficit issues by just taxing rich people, it won't work. We cannot even do it by taxing everybody (see other thread). There will HAVE to be changes in taxation, yes. But coupled with drastic spending cuts... yes, some popular programs will suffer. That's just the reality of the situation.

None of which addresses the topic of whether this plan is good or bad.
 
Ryan's plan does do the following(source:A Roadmap for America's Future | The Budget Committee Republicans):

Eliminates the Alternative Minimum Tax. This benefits only the rich

Eliminates taxes on capital gains, interest, and dividends. This benefits the rich much more than any one else.

Eliminates the socalled death tax. This benefits only the rich.

Massively reduces corporate taxes.


You forgot the income tax reduction for the wealthiest americans from 35% to 25% thats a full 28.2% decrease in their taxs

The Ryan plan is a candy store for the Rich and a death sentence for the middle class
 
You forgot the income tax reduction for the wealthiest americans from 35% to 25% thats a full 28.2% decrease in their taxs

The Ryan plan is a candy store for the Rich and a death sentence for the middle class

What is funny is I cannot find a list of deductions eliminated anywhere. Funny that....
 
What is funny is I cannot find a list of deductions eliminated anywhere. Funny that....

Cmon redress your a smart guy, smarter than I am for sure...this is a page out of Rahm Emmanuels playbook never let a crisis get wasted.
The GOP. MY PARTY is using this horrific economic turmoil for the rich to capitolize on paying no taxs and making the middle class pay through the nose....they will pay in the end

Last congress with Nancy Pelosi and this one with the teaparty brats shows just how important balance is you cant let either of these parties grab total control.
 
Last congress with Nancy Pelosi and this one with the teaparty brats shows just how important balance is you cant let either of these parties grab total control.

To an extent I agree with this. One of the strengths of Bill Clinton was he took republican ideas and made him his own(see for example NAFTA), pissing off both sides in the process. What I think happens is that we have republican ideas and democratic ideas, and no one wants to look for the good in the other sides ideas.
 
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