View Poll Results: w will this budget affect the 2012 election?

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  • It will help Obama/Democrats

    16 39.02%
  • It will help Republicans

    8 19.51%
  • Don't know

    10 24.39%
  • No change

    7 17.07%
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Thread: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

  1. #181
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    I would agree with a tax raise compromise on the following conditions:

    1. A 8 year increase to the income tax, where everyones raises at least some. Even if that means those that currently pay 0% in income tax go up to 2%, I'd go with it.
    2. That a 7% decrease in spending over each of the next 8 years
    3. A provision that, if for any reason, spending increases above the level needed to meet the 7% decrease (after adjusting for inflation) then tax payers are able to be refunded an amount equal to their tax increase on that years taxes
    4. A provision that, if for any reason, income taxes are reduced beyond the initial levels set by the bill then the next budget following that decrease is not required.
    5. A sunset of 8 years

    If you burden EVERYONE to a point with an increase in tax, and you make it garaunteed that spending WILL be cut with tax payers not being caught with our pants down if the government renegs on its responsability. I wouldn't LIKE the tax...but I'd be willing to make that compromise for almost garaunteed cuts in the budget.

    That would save, without adjusting for inflation, roughly $1.5 trillion dollars over those 8 years while reducing our budget by roughly 40% at the end of that time period, dropping it from $3.8 Trillion to $2.3 Trillion.

    Curious if you'd go with that compromise haymarket?

  2. #182
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    hint: it's 2011. 2020 is nine years from now. and if it's 2019, or 2022, what does it matter? it's the collapse of Medicare and a good chunk of the economy with it. we should have fixed it years ago, and the longer we delay the worse the inevitable gets.
    You did not read the linked story did you? You managed to not address any of the points of contention they had with the comments of Ryan. Congratz! Well done!

    By the way, the first time that the Medicare trust fund was projected to collapse was 1970. The projection was it would collapse in 1972. Again, not the thrust of the article(read it, it is interesting and I learned a little bit), but I thought it was interesting.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I would agree with a tax raise compromise on the following conditions:

    1. A 8 year increase to the income tax, where everyones raises at least some. Even if that means those that currently pay 0% in income tax go up to 2%, I'd go with it.
    2. That a 7% decrease in spending over each of the next 8 years
    3. A provision that, if for any reason, spending increases above the level needed to meet the 7% decrease (after adjusting for inflation) then tax payers are able to be refunded an amount equal to their tax increase on that years taxes
    4. A provision that, if for any reason, income taxes are reduced beyond the initial levels set by the bill then the next budget following that decrease is not required.
    5. A sunset of 8 years

    If you burden EVERYONE to a point with an increase in tax, and you make it garaunteed that spending WILL be cut with tax payers not being caught with our pants down if the government renegs on its responsability. I wouldn't LIKE the tax...but I'd be willing to make that compromise for almost garaunteed cuts in the budget.

    That would save, without adjusting for inflation, roughly $1.5 trillion dollars over those 8 years while reducing our budget by roughly 40% at the end of that time period, dropping it from $3.8 Trillion to $2.3 Trillion.

    Curious if you'd go with that compromise haymarket?
    Amusingly, I would not go for a tax increase under any circumstances now. While trying to get through a recovery, I think it simply would do more harm than good. I also think it is not needed to cut the deficit. Hell, you could freeze spending and do more for the deficit that raising taxes.

    Redress, more conservative than Zyphlin.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Hehe, trust me...I agree with you 100%. If I had my way it'd be focusing on spurring the economy and cutting spending, with taxes remaining at levels they are now.

    However...I think our biggest issue right now in the long run for this country is not just getting spending under control, but creating an atmosphere where CUTTING the government budget rather than raising it doesn't seem almost blapshemous but rather a normal action. If it meant having to buy that chance with small tax cuts, that at least affect everyone...then I'll take it. Its not my prefered choice...not by a long shot...but Keeping taxes low is less important to me than significantly creating a culture of spending cuts.

    Of course, all things relative. If you up the tax on the rich by 50% to cut the budget by .5% then you'd get a different reaction fro me

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Hehe, trust me...I agree with you 100%. If I had my way it'd be focusing on spurring the economy and cutting spending, with taxes remaining at levels they are now.

    However...I think our biggest issue right now in the long run for this country is not just getting spending under control, but creating an atmosphere where CUTTING the government budget rather than raising it doesn't seem almost blapshemous but rather a normal action. If it meant having to buy that chance with small tax cuts, that at least affect everyone...then I'll take it. Its not my prefered choice...not by a long shot...but Keeping taxes low is less important to me than significantly creating a culture of spending cuts.

    Of course, all things relative. If you up the tax on the rich by 50% to cut the budget by .5% then you'd get a different reaction fro me
    I give you a hard time about compromise, but this is one area I don't think I could. Tax hikes right now would be counterproductive. In fact I would favor a small(<5 %) decrease to corporate taxes. Growth is and should be the leading part of deficit reduction. Raising taxes would hurt growth. It is doing exactly the wrong thing.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Oh, and some what relevant to this thread, and an interesting read: PolitiFact | Democrats say Republicans voted to end Medicare and charge seniors $12,000
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Oh, and some what relevant to this thread, and an interesting read: PolitiFact | Democrats say Republicans voted to end Medicare and charge seniors $12,000
    That is a terrible ad, and quite frankly, counterproductive. As we have done in this thread there is no need for Democrats and like minded groups to create such distortions and lies about the plan because there is more than enough in the bill to kill it while telling nothing but the truth.

  8. #188
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You did not read the linked story did you? You managed to not address any of the points of contention they had with the comments of Ryan. Congratz! Well done!
    I was responding to lpast. I've long since given up on him ever having logically connected points making a rational argument supported by data.

    however, as I read the article, I come to a few points:

    1. they agree with Ryan that the CBO said Medicare A was going to collapse in 2020, but they point out reporting that states if the economy really roars back into full swing we might last a little (not a lot, not even a medium) longer.

    ......checking...... nope, don't see the economy in full swing.

    2. They point out that Ryan is only referencing Medicare A, and there are two other portions of Medicare on the table (D, I notice they don't mention, is slain by Obamacare under current law - given that D is the only program in our history to come in at 40% under cost, that strikes me as amazingly stupid, but anti-market fanatics will be anti-market fanatics). But (as they do note) part B is funded out of the General Fund, which is already drawing a $1.5 Trillion deficit.

    and that leads us into the hilarious part which is this:

    ...CBO’s projections for Medicare didn’t say that the SMI trust fund was in danger of exhaustion. In fact, in its 2010 report, the Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees said that Parts B and D were "both projected to remain adequately financed into the indefinite future because current law automatically provides financing each year to meet the next year’s expected costs."..
    they are talking about drawing from the General Fund. they are saying don't worry if we are spending way more money than we are bringing in and have no savings to cover - the law makes this spending mandatory, which means we will just cease to have a department of education, a department of labor, a department of defense, a department of housing and urban development, a department of agriculture..... So, just so long as we are willing to have our government stop doing anything else; we aren't broke for several more years. hooray?

    and again, i feel compelled to point out: who cares if the date is 2020, 2018, or 2027? the need to reform the program before we get to the point where current retirees would have to suffer is not diminished.

    By the way, the first time that the Medicare trust fund was projected to collapse was 1970. The projection was it would collapse in 1972.
    and you stop quoting there, which is interesting, because it goes on to say:

    ...the HI trust fund has faced a projected shortfall." For example, in 1970, the Trustees report said the fund would be insolvent in 1972, and in 1980 the fund was expected to be depleted in 1994. Politicians keep finding ways to postpone any insolvency...
    it's not the magic or strength of the program, it's that we keep finding solutions. which is precisely what Paul Ryan is doing now.

  9. #189
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Oh, and some what relevant to this thread, and an interesting read: PolitiFact | Democrats say Republicans voted to end Medicare and charge seniors $12,000
    hilarious even politifact can't spin that one.




    buuuut unfortunately i bet it will be effective Democrats figured out a while ago that their best bet in 2012 was demagoguery, lies, and avoiding the problem.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-20-11 at 07:07 PM.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    Except that you have now increased the budget, what you propose is taxing people into oblivioun to pay for this bloated hog of a government and all programs for the dependent class...


    That's not compromise at all.
    Nope thats not what I said...Ive said all along NO MORE TAX CUTS FOR THE RICHEST and the corporations end their deductions that allow them to pay next to nothing and then cut spending like A moratorium on foreign aid to 154 countries we give it to in the hundreds upon hundreds of billions STOP THAT immediately, being to end the invasion of illegals that cost us hundreds of billions...make changes to entitlements...then when the country is totally out of the red and back on its feet...go back and revisit all of it and make the intelligent sensible changes....This absurd cut taxs for the rich and corporations on the federal lvl and the state level and increase every other damn thing for the middle class and poor is not FAIR debt reduction its Give to the rich and take from everyone else....ive never once said raise taxs on the rich..

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