View Poll Results: w will this budget affect the 2012 election?

Voters
41. You may not vote on this poll
  • It will help Obama/Democrats

    16 39.02%
  • It will help Republicans

    8 19.51%
  • Don't know

    10 24.39%
  • No change

    7 17.07%
Page 16 of 23 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 160 of 225

Thread: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

  1. #151
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,114

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Rep. Paul Ryan’s claim that Medicare will be "bankrupt in nine years" goes too far. The trust fund that primarily supports one part of Medicare is projected to be exhausted come 2020, according to the Congressional Budget Office
    hint: it's 2011. 2020 is nine years from now. and if it's 2019, or 2022, what does it matter? it's the collapse of Medicare and a good chunk of the economy with it. we should have fixed it years ago, and the longer we delay the worse the inevitable gets.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-20-11 at 08:22 AM.

  2. #152
    Student
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Last Seen
    04-11-17 @ 11:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    275

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    why do you think that it would somehow be different for healthcare than it is for every other good on the market? the claim that "some healthcare is necessary, and that's why it's not subject to market pressure" isn't matched by experience. Food is also necessary, as is housing, yet each of these goods is subject to market pressures because there are still multiple providers.

    Medicare D, for example (which functions very similarly to the premium support plan) put market pressure on healthcare spending, and came in 40% under budget. 40%! has any government program in the history of man ever done that?

    In Indiana, the adoption of HSA's (which also put market pressure on healthcare spending) has led to an 11% decrease in costs.
    I think part of my reasoning that health care costs will not react to market pressures like most other products is that people are not rational actors when it come to costs. When it comes down to it people don't care how much something will cost, just so long as it saves them. Here is a blog post from The Economist that better articulates some of my concerns about the plan's ability to actually decrease health care costs: Medicare reform: You put the load right on me | The Economist

    Do you have a link that goes into depth about what Indiana did with HSAs? I have read a little bit about it and so far it sounds like an interesting concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    which has already been demonstrated to drive down healthcare costs and is how health insurance should look anyway. it's a screwup in our tax code that gave us our current idiocy of a system. it's like expecting your auto insurance to fill up your gas tank.
    This is what you are going to have a hard time selling to the future elderly. They will be the ones who will eat up that $5,000 deductible every few years because they will have to have necessary surgeries done. The other option is they wait so long to have problems fixed that they create further problems by waiting longer. Now add to that out of pocket costs and a voucher that grows slower than the rate of health care inflation, and the government is just pushing the costs onto the elderly. I imagine that annually Congress would have to pass legislation that fixes the growth issues, much like it currently does with Medicare reimbursements to doctor. Then any hope of saving money is thrown out the window.

    Even with the high deductible plans, why would insurance companies want to participate in the health care exchanges if it meant giving up the ability to cherry-pick which elderly they could insure? Most companies try to ween themselves of the sickest customers, whereas this plan does the complete opposite.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    :lmao you think this proposal, which wide majorities of even tea partiers oppose isn't' gutsy? and you think that he cuts too much, but then are upset that he doesn't do it early enough?
    I will be honest that I don't view Paul Ryan's plan as gutsy. He has gone out of his way to ensure that his core constituencies of the elderly, wealthy, farmers, and businesses are not too negatively affected.

    So far the only poll I have seen recently that mentions anything about how the Tea Party feels about Medicare cuts is the McClatchy-Marist poll that shows over 70% oppose cuts to Medicare. The results can be easily credited with the age group that make up the Tea Party. I am sure most of them think that any reform to Medicare will result in changes to the coverage that they would receive. As it has been made clear under the Ryan plan they would experience no changes, unless they chose to go the voucher route. I would wager that detail will change the opinion of how Tea Partiers feel about cutting Medicare with knowledge that they are safe from any substantial cuts. Until a poll is taken that asks Tea Partiers specifically about their feelings about the plan, I would hesitate to say how they really view Ryan's plan.

    Until further details are hashed out, I am neither strongly for or against his plan. Some of the details, like what obvious child pointed out, make me skittish about supporting reforms. If reform to a voucher system is indeed implemented, then I want everyone to be included.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    waiting until 2022 is smart because it allows Americans to plan. your grandfather won't be effected - but your dad will know that needs to be ready for the new program, and can make adjustments accordingly so that he is taken care of.
    First of all, my grandfather passed away ten years ago this December. So I certainly hope that he won't be affected by this reform. Now I know in Chicago we love to have our dead do plenty of things, but as far as I know insuring them is not one of them.

    My concern is that even people now that are ten years away from retirement will struggle to save adequately to cover the out of pocket costs that they will incur were these reforms to go into effect. This plan looks only looks worse the younger you get.

    On a similar note, what is your opinion of the Wyden-Bennett Act?

  3. #153
    Sage
    pbrauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Oregon
    Last Seen
    11-27-15 @ 03:31 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,394

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    According to a Post-ABC poll , 78% of American's do not want cuts to Medicare as a way of addressing the dept.

    Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem - The Washington Post


  4. #154
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,855

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    According to a Post-ABC poll , 78% of American's do not want cuts to Medicare as a way of addressing the dept.

    Poll shows Americans oppose entitlement cuts to deal with debt problem - The Washington Post
    the American people have more sense than all the conservative and libertarian fancy think tanks and their political toadies lumped together.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #155
    Guru
    celticwar17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    4,900

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    I wish that Ryan would run for president

  6. #156
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,643

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    the American people have more sense than all the conservative and libertarian fancy think tanks and their political toadies lumped together.


    "All the American People" consist of democrats, Republicans, Libertarian, etc. I don't think your statement is accurate. Furthermore, I think the American people, know we can't keep spending the way we do, and given the fact that we have been burned when it comes to the "reduce spending" side after a tax raise, people are sick of government as usual on both sides, and truly wish for change.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  7. #157
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,855

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    "All the American People" consist of democrats, Republicans, Libertarian, etc. I don't think your statement is accurate. Furthermore, I think the American people, know we can't keep spending the way we do, and given the fact that we have been burned when it comes to the "reduce spending" side after a tax raise, people are sick of government as usual on both sides, and truly wish for change.
    Why would you reprint my statement and then change it into something else by adding the word ALL in front of it and then place quotes around it? That is intellectually dishonest and an intentional distortion from what I wrote. When we say that the American people have spoken - we all know - or at least most of us do - that ALL the American people are never going to agree on anything political - but a clear majority have spoken - as measured in those poll results cited here.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  8. #158
    ANTI**ANTIFA
    ReverendHellh0und's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Temple of Solomon
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:00 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    75,643

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Why would you reprint my statement and then change it into something else by adding the word ALL in front of it and then place quotes around it? That is intellectually dishonest and an intentional distortion from what I wrote. When we say that the American people have spoken - we all know - or at least most of us do - that ALL the American people are never going to agree on anything political - but a clear majority have spoken - as measured in those poll results cited here.


    the " " " was a world over, when you say "the american people" that is the same as "all". But like i said, I think the American people, know we can't keep spending the way we do, and given the fact that we have been burned when it comes to the "reduce spending" side after a tax raise, people are sick of government as usual on both sides, and truly wish for change.


    We have been sold a bill of good by the republicans and democrats, attacking these budgets that attempt to fix the spending issue, based on who wrote it and misinformation, to me is counterproductive. I for one would like to see for example the democrats spending cuts plan.
    Let evil swiftly befall those who have wrongly condemned us

  9. #159
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,974

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Yes, polls show the American People also realize we need significant spending cuts...which creates this dichotomy of approving spending cuts but disapproving of most specific cuts.

    However, I would not suggest that a Poll represents the will of the American People. Was it not just this past year during the Election season that democrats were telling us that polls stating the majority of people wanted Health Care overturned was irrelevant? I do not remember this applauding of the American People when those were the polls out in the media.

  10. #160
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:31 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    89,855

    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by ReverendHellh0und View Post
    the " " " was a world over, when you say "the american people" that is the same as "all". But like i said, I think the American people, know we can't keep spending the way we do, and given the fact that we have been burned when it comes to the "reduce spending" side after a tax raise, people are sick of government as usual on both sides, and truly wish for change.

    Do not add words to my words and put them in quotes. It is dishonest and committing intellectual fraud.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Page 16 of 23 FirstFirst ... 61415161718 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •