View Poll Results: w will this budget affect the 2012 election?

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  • It will help Obama/Democrats

    16 39.02%
  • It will help Republicans

    8 19.51%
  • Don't know

    10 24.39%
  • No change

    7 17.07%
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Thread: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

  1. #131
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The only problem is with using information from that link is that is not Congressman Ryan's current budget plan, but rather his ideal plan. Here is a link to the correct budget plan:http://budget.house.gov/UploadedFile...rityFY2012.pdf

    With that in mind, it is still way too early before anybody can make claims about how this will work out until it makes its way through Congress. Yes, its intent is to close all loopholes for corporations and make the income tax revenue neutral, but it has yet to be seen whether it will actually do that. Given that Congressman Ryan seems to dodge questions about closing controversial loopholes such as oil subsidies, I seriously question whether it will close all tax expenditures like he claims his plan will. I guess only time will tell.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Ok, now maybe we're getting somewhere.

    I have asked questions in threads where you are active and seen mine and others simplistically dismissed by you.

    So in future maybe some discussion can happen.

    And I get that you obsess. I do the samr thing about PR industry "persuasion".

    Just bear in mind that other people who aren't idiots do disagree with some of your presumptions and only possible solutions. There is a vested interest in people believing as you do and a considerable amount of money is spent reinforcing said beliefs.

    I suspect that some of the programs you summarily pronounce DOA could probably be repaired in some fashion that doesnt actually destroy them and that is what the majority want. It may simply require belts being tightened that are not generally subject to tightening.

    Here's to actual debate moving forward.
    1. alright, where are the actual questions
    2. the entitlement programs can survive. they simply cant' survive in their current form because eventually (and sooner rather than later) they will kill the host (the US of A) that supports them.
    3. I, and other conservatives would love to save these programs. I put out my own idea for Saving Social Security by turning it into a vehicle by which the working poor could build enough wealth to become financially independent upon retirement.

  3. #133
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. alright, where are the actual questions
    2. the entitlement programs can survive. they simply cant' survive in their current form because eventually (and sooner rather than later) they will kill the host (the US of A) that supports them.
    3. I, and other conservatives would love to save these programs. I put out my own idea for Saving Social Security by turning it into a vehicle by which the working poor could build enough wealth to become financially independent upon retirement.
    Again since we like to be repetitive here...cutting entitlements are necessary, cutting spending is necessary, CUTTING TAXS is not necessary and does nothing to help debt reduction and this debt pain were experiencing needs to be shared by everyone.
    Ryans plan is a candystore of tax cuts for the wealthiest at the expense of the middleclass

  4. #134
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Its an indisputable fact that Ryans plan cuts the tax rate on the wealthy
    it is a rate cut matched with a deduction cut to achieve tax neutrality; as was suggested by the Presidents' own bi-partisan Debt Commission. If your' check to the IRS doesn't change, then you havent' gotten a tax cut.

    Whether or not it significantly benefits the rich more than the poor or the middle class with regards to taxes that are actually paid, or if this will raise or lower the amount of taxes paid rather than the base rate, however is far from an open and shut case. There is a legitimate argument about those things.

    So saying Ryans plan lowers the tax rate on the wealthy is correct. Suggesting that it decreases the taxes the wealthy will ultimately pay, or far more significantly benefits the rich when it comes to taxes is a far more questionable claim.
    certainly the devil is in the details. but slapping the title "tax cut" on that kind of change-over is an oversimplification meant to deceive.

  5. #135
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Again since we like to be repetitive here...cutting entitlements are necessary, cutting spending is necessary, CUTTING TAXS is not necessary
    i would tend to disagree, but since the 2012 budget plan doesn't do that, i guess the point is moot.

    and does nothing to help debt reduction
    actually the tax simplification will significantly boost the economy by reducing drag in the form of $431 billion we spend annually just trying to comply with our own code.

    and this debt pain were experiencing needs to be shared by everyone.
    except, of course, public unions. when Ryan's plan alters Medicare he means-tests it, which leaves the wealthy retirees getting less. such a program would probably be in place for any social security reform as well. so, even as these programs effect everyone, rich and middle class and poor alike, the Republican Proposal is to hit the wealthy more.

    you would think liberals would be all about this, but it came from a Republican.... so..... partisanship over ideology, i suppose.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post

    Massively reduces corporate taxes.
    this is a good thing.

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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it is a rate cut matched with a deduction cut to achieve tax neutrality; as was suggested by the Presidents' own bi-partisan Debt Commission. If your' check to the IRS doesn't change, then you havent' gotten a tax cut.
    No one is saying revenue is affected(that is tax neutrality), but some people are going to have their tax bill change as a result of this. That is what we are discussing.

    certainly the devil is in the details. but slapping the title "tax cut" on that kind of change-over is an oversimplification meant to deceive.
    If you are paying less in taxes, you got a tax cut. Some people will inevitably have gotten a tax cut from this plan, and some people have inevitably gotten a tax increase.
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  8. #138
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    [QUOTE=Hicup;1059420427Support fiscally responsible candidates no MATTER what color their badge says.
    Tim-[/QUOTE]

    I agree, but not now, not in the middle of a recession. Being fiscally responsible means cutting jobs, and less jobs means less taxes and less spending.

    ricksfolly

  9. #139
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    He has no illusions that it will get through...what it does do however is force Obama out into the open...and we've already seen this.

    No Republican Budget can get though until at least 2012.


    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman_Spiff View Post
    The only problem is with using information from that link is that is not Congressman Ryan's current budget plan, but rather his ideal plan. Here is a link to the correct budget plan:http://budget.house.gov/UploadedFile...rityFY2012.pdf

    With that in mind, it is still way too early before anybody can make claims about how this will work out until it makes its way through Congress. Yes, its intent is to close all loopholes for corporations and make the income tax revenue neutral, but it has yet to be seen whether it will actually do that. Given that Congressman Ryan seems to dodge questions about closing controversial loopholes such as oil subsidies, I seriously question whether it will close all tax expenditures like he claims his plan will. I guess only time will tell.
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  10. #140
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    Re: The Ryan/Republican Budget - 2012 elections

    from Redress pointing out a flaw in the Ryan budget plan

    Massively reduces corporate taxes.
    and the reply from Whovian



    this is a good thing.
    if you are a corporation.
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