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Should we Eliminate Social Security?

Should we Eliminate Social Security

  • Yes, no replacement

    Votes: 13 25.5%

  • Yes, but with a replacement

    Votes: 11 21.6%

  • No, we should wait until it goes bankrupt

    Votes: 1 2.0%

  • No, its not going to go bankrupt

    Votes: 22 43.1%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 7.8%
  • Total voters
    51
iamitter said:
That seems fair. If it is that way, too, I would allow an opt-out measure, but make sure the people who take it are very financially secure and really don't have to supplement their other retirement income.
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Why? Are you their mother?

end the damn program, and make it perfectly plain that it's not coming back, that people who are foolish with their money will not be happy old ladies, unless they put their son through medical school or married him off to a doctor.l

It's past time people stopped pretending the government, whose only instrument is force, should be allowed the authority to tell a man how to run his life, or be allowed the authority to take from others what is needed to patch up the mistakes a man makes of his life.

People who want to play Florence Nightengale have the freedom to do so, what they don't have, what they should never have, is the means to use the frightening power of government to compel compliance with their fantasies. Let them use their own money if they want to be altruistic.

In fact, it's only when they're using their own money can they even pretend to be altruistic.
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
So, you've never visited a web page where people talk honestly of the enemies the Republic has to face?

Welcome.
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How he is he a "hater of freedom"? Or hell even an "anti consitutionalist"?
He is not the "leader of the democratic party" either. Yea he caucuses with them. Last time i checked he has spoken out against Obama, much legislation the Dem's have passed or try to pass...
And man oh man. Never knew you where the decider of the "enemies of the Republic"...
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
Why? Are you their mother?

end the damn program, and make it perfectly plain that it's not coming back, that people who are foolish with their money will not be happy old ladies, unless they put their son through medical school or married him off to a doctor.l

It's past time people stopped pretending the government, whose only instrument is force, should be allowed the authority to tell a man how to run his life, or be allowed the authority to take from others what is needed to patch up the mistakes a man makes of his life.

People who want to play Florence Nightengale have the freedom to do so, what they don't have, what they should never have, is the means to use the frightening power of government to compel compliance with their fantasies. Let them use their own money if they want to be altruistic.

In fact, it's only when they're using their own money can they even pretend to be altruistic.
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If people don't know what a CD is, how can you expect them to plan for their retirement. If all the government is doing is keeping your money in a lockbox and its a program where you can opt out, you have a serious concern against that?
I want SS to end, too, but your stance here is ridiculous.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
How he is he a "hater of freedom"? Or hell even an "anti consitutionalist"?
He is not the "leader of the democratic party" either. Yea he caucuses with them. Last time i checked he has spoken out against Obama, much legislation the Dem's have passed or try to pass...
And man oh man. Never knew you where the decider of the "enemies of the Republic"...
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In the make believe land where Snorkum is Mayor anything is possible whether it makes sense or not. In the real world however, it doesn't mean diddly squat.
 
Yall yall yall yall

This is just like "It's the parents fault. They need to get more involved" For the last 157 years. Hey guess what? The parents are not going to get more involved teaching the kids. YOU have to do it and stop making excuses.

People don't make enough money , first of all, to be investing it for retirement. They are struggling from pay check to pay check and certainly not thinking about retirement. They are in an emergency! A perpetual emergency. They never have any money to sock aside

Yes, that's all they have at retirement but for 30 years they have had 15.3% of their money tucked away for them. Money they could never touch.

If not for this system they would have nothing, No money to live on in their old age. Let's keep this in mind while thinking about how to improve the system. Doing away with it is not an option.
 
sazerac said:
People don't make enough money , first of all, to be investing it for retirement. They are struggling from pay check to pay check and certainly not thinking about retirement. They are in an emergency! A perpetual emergency. They never have any money to sock aside
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Funny, I'm not living pay-check to pay-check, I make plenty and I've got plenty of money for investing, both for retirement and for income. The problem is, people are living beyond their means, trying to compete with the Jones' and living on credit. Irresponsible living is always going to put you in the poor house. Those who get a good education, make good decisions and don't get in over their heads rarely have problems. It's the ones who act like there's no tomorrow who have issues.

People need to be responsible for themselves.
 
Cephus said:
Funny, I'm not living pay-check to pay-check, I make plenty and I've got plenty of money for investing, both for retirement and for income. The problem is, people are living beyond their means, trying to compete with the Jones' and living on credit. Irresponsible living is always going to put you in the poor house. Those who get a good education, make good decisions and don't get in over their heads rarely have problems. It's the ones who act like there's no tomorrow who have issues.

People need to be responsible for themselves.
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I agree with a lot of what you have said here.

I really believe that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme where new entrants are paying off older members. Like all Ponzi schemes it will crash and leave many holding the bag.
We can't keep treating our grandkids like this. I feel some generation is going to have to bite the bullet and I almost feel it should be the baby boomers.

For my grandkids I never plan to retire. I feel many of my generations are not going to be running around the country in RVs chasing the sunshine and buffet counters. We are going to have to work until physically unable to.

Even with all that I think some type of retirement program is needed. Americans just don't save. Just look at the average credit card debt. If we don't force them to save then they will become a burden to others when they can no longer work and that doesnt seem fair.
 
Cephus said:
Funny, I'm not living pay-check to pay-check, I make plenty and I've got plenty of money for investing, both for retirement and for income. The problem is, people are living beyond their means, trying to compete with the Jones' and living on credit. Irresponsible living is always going to put you in the poor house. Those who get a good education, make good decisions and don't get in over their heads rarely have problems. It's the ones who act like there's no tomorrow who have issues.

People need to be responsible for themselves.
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I'm very happy for you, Then you should have no trouble supporting the millions of people who are too old to work and have no money because there was no system to assure they did.

Life's has been very good to you and that's great. You worked hard and deserve it.

We could wave a magic wand and make everybody as well adjusted as you.

People do stuff like live beyond their means but more often they have kids to feed and educate and a health setback and sacrifice.
 
justabubba said:
and what of the people who have spent their careers paying into it, anticipating those SS monies to be available to them upon their retirement ... what would you have them do?
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If it the wonderful system they say it is, the money should be there, now shouldn't it. If it's a ponzi scheme, then we need people to keep paying into it.
 
Crosscheck said:
I agree with a lot of what you have said here.

I really believe that Social Security is a Ponzi scheme where new entrants are paying off older members. Like all Ponzi schemes it will crash and leave many holding the bag.
We can't keep treating our grandkids like this. I feel some generation is going to have to bite the bullet and I almost feel it should be the baby boomers.

For my grandkids I never plan to retire. I feel many of my generations are not going to be running around the country in RVs chasing the sunshine and buffet counters. We are going to have to work until physically unable to.

Even with all that I think some type of retirement program is needed. Americans just don't save. Just look at the average credit card debt. If we don't force them to save then they will become a burden to others when they can no longer work and that doesnt seem fair.
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Good points. Social Security WAS intentionally set up to be a ponzi scheme; It was a "contract between generations" - You support generation A and generation C will support you.

A lot of people got hundreds of times more out of it than they put into it.

It can be fixed without throwing it away altogether.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Anti Constitutionalist ? :roll:
Hater of Freedom? :roll:
Leader of Democratic Party? :roll:
WOW
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.........to see Americans quoting the words of a Self proclaimed Socialist as a "solution"........WOW indeed.
.
.
.
.
 
sazerac said:
I'm very happy for you, Then you should have no trouble supporting the millions of people who are too old to work and have no money because there was no system to assure they did.

Life's has been very good to you and that's great. You worked hard and deserve it.

We could wave a magic wand and make everybody as well adjusted as you.

People do stuff like live beyond their means but more often they have kids to feed and educate and a health setback and sacrifice.
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That's why I already said, and I'm getting tired of repeating it, that those who are currently too old to work and invest in their future should still get the social security they've been paying into all this time. The people who ARE NOT TOO OLD should not be paying into the system, they should be working and investing on their own to ensure their own retirement.

The fact is, you're giving people an excuse for being lazy and stupid. I refuse to do that. People ought to be required to be intelligent, rational and self-sufficient. If they don't, screw 'em. There ought to be a high level of expectation and a requirement that people be responsible for themselves. If you do that and don't make exceptions, people will meet the expectations, that or starve to death. We should have a social safety net that catches people when they fall and puts them back on their feet, it shouldn't help those who are too lazy to ever get up in the first place.
 
sazerac said:
Good points. Social Security WAS intentionally set up to be a ponzi scheme; It was a "contract between generations" - You support generation A and generation C will support you.

A lot of people got hundreds of times more out of it than they put into it.

It can be fixed without throwing it away altogether.
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And people complain about insurance companies, good lord.

So it's alright for a person to craft a contract in their favor and make someone who does not exist yet, responsible for it in the future.
If a business were doing this, people would be universally outraged.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
And people complain about insurance companies, good lord.

So it's alright for a person to craft a contract in their favor and make someone who does not exist yet, responsible for it in the future.
If a business were doing this, people would be universally outraged.
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would you please identify for us the PERSON who crafted a contract in their favor (relative to this thread topic)
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
The people who voted for the program and the people who continue to support it.
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so it wasn't a PERSON
it was the government acting on behalf of the public
thus we can conclude your prior post was erroneous and misleading ... there was no person crafting a contract in their own favor
 
justabubba said:
so it wasn't a PERSON
it was the government acting on behalf of the public
thus we can conclude your prior post was erroneous and misleading ... there was no person crafting a contract in their own favor
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an interesting misunderstanding of representative government
 
TurtleDude said:
an interesting misunderstanding of representative government
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delighted you think so. please unravel it by showing what i posted was untrue
 
justabubba said:
delighted you think so. please unravel it by showing what i posted was untrue
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please establish that your claim was true

you do understand the concept of representation don't you
 
TurtleDude said:
please establish that your claim was true

you do understand the concept of representation don't you
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then you have nothing. it was you who insisted that i posted
an interesting misunderstanding of representative government
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and when given the invitation to point out any flaws in my presentation, you were unable to find any

speaks to your debate capabilities ... rather, the lack of them
 
justabubba said:
then you have nothing. it was you who insisted that i posted

and when given the invitation to point out any flaws in my presentation, you were unable to find any

speaks to your debate capabilities ... rather, the lack of them
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you clearly didn't understand the point of the person you attacked--you didn't understand that when he talked about individuals he was obviously incorporating their representatives

maybe we should have a poll-if you want to put my debate capabilities into question. I wonder who thinks your posts demonstrate a high level of intellect
 
shintao said:
Yes, indeed! In this Capitalist America, it is not only pathetic, but shameful that American workers do not have full wage retirements, so there is no change in their lifestyles as they make the transition to retirement.
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Where in the world are people entitled to full wage retirements? How does the government that provides everyone a golden parachute afford to do so?
 
The Roosevelt programs should take the form of charities, so you can choose where your money goes instead of it being paid to drug addicts and prostitutes. That way, people cannot live off welfare and SS, and if they do, even with the policy above, then they should have to do some kind of work, such as CCC work and community service.
 
repeter said:
I was reading an article on Yahoo News, and it stated that 20% of your tax dollars go to Social Security. Now, given the fact that SS is going to go bankrupt in the future, and the way its set up is inherently wasteful, should we cut it completely before it dies on its own?

I'd say yes, but with the caveat that we should look into establishing a market in the private sector to replace it.
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well given this is a debate forum, and I am supposed to find something to argue with you over this, i am forced to suggesting that we should phase it over to a new system. rather than a straight replacement. but other than that, you are absolutely 100% correct. It's wonderful to hear a democrat say that.
 
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