View Poll Results: Should we Eliminate Social Security

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  • Yes, no replacement

    18 30.00%
  • Yes, but with a replacement

    11 18.33%
  • No, we should wait until it goes bankrupt

    1 1.67%
  • No, its not going to go bankrupt

    26 43.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

  1. #231
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Eh, I question your source. Your source is from someone who majored in history, not economics. The Stock Market Crash isn't relevant to the Great Depression. The run on banks is essentially what I had said. The Federal Reserve acts as a lender of last resort so as to prevent bank runs. However, the policies of the Federal Reserve did nothing to prevent such banks runs in the 1930s. Also, the Weimar Republican was hit with hyperinflation well before the Great Depression and I consider that and the Treaty of Versailles to be the two biggest causes of the Nazi Party takeover.

    Bernanke: Federal Reserve caused Great Depression
    You'll notice that many historians go along with the safe answers instead of the researched answers.
    That's why so many people believe utter nonsense about America.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  2. #232
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    from Henrin

    a statement in the U.S. constitution (Article I, Section 8) granting Congress the power to pass all laws necessary and proper for carrying out the enumerated list of powers.
    except it DOES NOT say that. That is twisting it to say what you interpret to say.

    Repeter gave us the word for word language

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Changing those words then change their meaning in doing so.

    You can believe what ever you want to believe.. You cannot change the Constitution to say what ever you want it to say.
    Last edited by haymarket; 04-19-11 at 08:22 AM.
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  3. #233
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope, you do. The Great Depression began in 1929 and the social programs that created the strongest middle class began in the 30's.
    the spending and taxing of the 30's is what helped keep us in the Depression named Great. The Recession that LED to this Depression was worsened by precisely the kind of federal meddling in the marketplace that typified the New Deal.

    ...The Roaring Twenties were a time of unprecedented prosperity. GNP expanded year after year without inflation. Productivity improved, and real wages increased. The stock market tripled. There was a dramatic expansion of the middle class. The Great Migration occurred during the 1920s, with some 7 million African-Americans moving north for better schools and job opportunities. Women had the vote. Millions of Americans began to buy cars, originally a luxury of the rich. People bought radios that enabled ordinary people to hear the finest entertainers in their own homes. Movies became popular. Frozen food made possible a more varied diet year-round. Doctors developed new medicines to fight deadly diseases like diphtheria and tuberculosis.

    While Harding can hardly be considered a champion of laissez-faire economics (he supported tariffs, after all), the pro-growth policies he implemented are directly responsible for the astonishingly rapid growth in prosperity— and widely shared prosperity— America enjoyed throughout the Roaring 20s...

    Every time the American people have been suckered into lowering the taxes on the wealty it ends the same way, in a recession. How did the 20's end up?
    the 20's did fine. what didn't do fine was when the Government attempted to change that formula by increasing regulation, increasing spending, increasing taxation, and increasing protectionism. those items kicked in under Hoovers' administration; and turned a Recession into a Depression. They then got turbo charged under FDR, and turned a Depression Great.

    The 50's only required one bread winner in the family to stay above the poverty line
    so did the 90's and 2011. Today's families have higher standards of living off of one bread winner than families in the 50's did.

    today more and more of the middle class are sliding into poverty with both parents working
    a descriptor without a metric. it could be met with anything, irrespective of relevance or significance. in the 1950's more and more of the poor were committing suicide.

    We narrowly avoided another Deoression through the stimulus spending
    on the contrary, the Stimulus has objectively made things worse, through the divertment of capital from productive to unproductive uses. you may have noticed how unemployment went way higher than it's originators forecast? thats' because their assumptions - their theory - are wrong.

    and we've had multiple wars that have lasted much longer than WWII
    Vietnam, for example, which lasted about 15 years. Korea is another - that war has been going on now well past its' fifth decade.

    I'm all for massive cuts in spending. Let's start by reducing our military spending by one fifth and ending our optional wars.
    so when Republicans call for $178 Bn in cuts of DOD spending in their 2012 budget - which is a little more than a fifth - , are you worried they are cutting too much?

    Look at what our military spending level was in the 50's.
    it was much, much larger than todays.

    Fiscal Year Military spending as percent of GDP
    1940 1.7
    1941 5.6
    1942 17.8
    1943 37.0
    1944 37.8
    1945 37.5
    1946 19.2
    1947 5.5
    1948 3.5
    1949 4.8
    1950 5.0
    1951 7.4
    1952 13.2
    1953 14.2
    1954 13.1
    1955 10.8
    1956 10.0
    1957 10.1
    1958 10.2
    1959 10.0
    1960 9.3

    1961 9.4
    1962 9.2
    1963 8.9
    1964 8.5
    1965 7.4
    1966 7.7
    1967 8.8
    1968 9.4
    1969 8.7
    1970 8.1

    It [Social Security] is not running a deficit
    Social Security Runs Deficit : Will Pay Out $45B More Than It Collects

    CBO: Social Security now to run permanent deficits

    Social security deficit in 2011 and beyond

    If you find evidence to support that claim be sure to let me know.
    Why Raising Social Security’s Tax Cap Wouldn’t Eliminate Its Shortfall

    Yep, and he was absolutely correct. How can we expect a representative government to be smarter than the group of people they come from?
    well, that was the intent of a Republic (or at least, one of the intents). the wisest friend I have in history insists that we peaked as a nation in 1789, and it's all been downhill since then. :p
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-19-11 at 09:14 AM.

  4. #234
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    FDR threatened to pack the courts with people that would rubber stamp his policies.
    I wouldn't call it constitutional with that in mind.
    That scheme failed, and was never implemented, therefore the integrity of the court remained intact.
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  5. #235
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Can you tell me how its necessary for the country? Just wondering.

    I will say this what I said earlier about me correcting myself you seemed to ignore. In order for something to be necessary it has to do more than just be something you need.
    I don't need SS, and would be better off without it. The logic at the time was people are too busy with living life, and getting through to retirement to wonder about what happens when they do retire. SS helped those people by doing what they wouldn't have thought of doing at the time: saving money. Now, I disagree with exactly how SS works, but for its time, it was a great idea that did wonders for people.

    Now, like affirmative action, its past its sell by date, and needs to be phased out before it starts doing more harm than good.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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  6. #236
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If it was extremely well managed the money wouldn't have been spent to cause an internal government debt.
    Not exactly sure you could attribute that to SS. You could attribute that to stupid, inefficient government as a whole.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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  7. #237
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    So what?
    That doesn't mean it was right.
    Its not jsut the fact that it hasn't been overturned, it hasn't even been challenged in a serious way before, at least not that I've ever heard. Given its 70 year history, I would think that somewhere along the line it becomes evident it is constitutional for any number of reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    It does give me power, it says so right there in the Constitution.
    The powers not delegated to the government are delegated to the states or the people.

    I am one of the people.
    And those powers are very, very limited. It does not include the power to determine the constitutionality of legislative/executive actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I find it so ironic that you decry Bush, yet support a president who was infinitely more fascist than Bush ever was or could be.
    Its more than what they were, it was what we needed at the time. Back then, we needed a level of facist control over the country, and we needed someone to take charge.

    We didn't need that now, though we needed it to a small extent following 9/11 IMO, and we got it.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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  8. #238
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    I don't need SS, and would be better off without it. The logic at the time was people are too busy with living life, and getting through to retirement to wonder about what happens when they do retire. SS helped those people by doing what they wouldn't have thought of doing at the time: saving money. Now, I disagree with exactly how SS works, but for its time, it was a great idea that did wonders for people.

    Now, like affirmative action, its past its sell by date, and needs to be phased out before it starts doing more harm than good.
    So you don't like the idea of someone matching your savings deposits.?

    My dad matched all my savings and I had a nice car at 16. I'm for it.

  9. #239
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    So you don't like the idea of someone matching your savings deposits.?

    My dad matched all my savings and I had a nice car at 16. I'm for it.
    As a child I like the idea, however when I become an adult, I would say I need to be responsible for myself. And I don't have any disabilities or problems that prevent me from taking care of myself without external care of some sort. The biggest thing about SS to me thats wrong with it is the precedent it sets. It coddles people, and we need to become more independent, and more aware of our economic states rather than less, which is what SS encourages, IMO.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
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  10. #240
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Its not jsut the fact that it hasn't been overturned, it hasn't even been challenged in a serious way before, at least not that I've ever heard. Given its 70 year history, I would think that somewhere along the line it becomes evident it is constitutional for any number of reasons.

    And those powers are very, very limited. It does not include the power to determine the constitutionality of legislative/executive actions.

    Its more than what they were, it was what we needed at the time. Back then, we needed a level of facist control over the country, and we needed someone to take charge.

    We didn't need that now, though we needed it to a small extent following 9/11 IMO, and we got it.
    Its not our powers that are limited its the governments. Theirs are limited and ours encompass everything beyond that.
    Give a man a fish, or he will destroy the only existing vial of antidote.

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