View Poll Results: Should we Eliminate Social Security

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  • Yes, no replacement

    18 30.00%
  • Yes, but with a replacement

    11 18.33%
  • No, we should wait until it goes bankrupt

    1 1.67%
  • No, its not going to go bankrupt

    26 43.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

  1. #221
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That isn't what I said.
    When a person has to threaten the supreme court with a loss of power in order to get them to comply, it shows that the laws or policies in question, are not based on valid legal theory.
    Every president tries to place partisan judges. That is why we have had a conservative court for so long. And even the Conservative court has not overturned SS on Constitutional grounds.

    Ruling of the law are based on factual meaning, not **** we make up as we go along.
    Right, and the SS is the body designated by the Constitution to determine what is Constituional. I find nothing in the Constition about giving that power instead to wingnut armchair lawyers on political forums.

    The Constitution was supposed to be the supreme law of the land...............
    As interpreted by the SS.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #222
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Nope, you do. The Great Depression began in 1929 and the social programs that created the strongest middle class began in the 30's.


    Every time the American people have been suckered into lowering the taxes on the wealty it ends the same way, in a recession. How did the 20's end up?
    The Great Depression had nothing to do with taxes. It was Federal Reserve policy that killed the economy. Nothing our government could do about it. It also didn't help that Hoover greatly increased federal spending during his term in office.

    Most social programs in the 1930s didn't have a lasting effect on the US economy (a few exceptions such as the FHA), nor did many have a positive one. The strongest middle class came during and after the war. America went from producing war goods to consumer goods almost overnight. This caused an economic boom. There was also a desire to house veterans which helped lead to the growth of suburbs.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

  3. #223
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That is US government debt. Not a deficit from the operation of SS. SS has been so successful, the proceeds have been used to offset the cost of wars and other government spending.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  4. #224
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Every president tries to place partisan judges. That is why we have had a conservative court for so long. And even the Conservative court has not overturned SS on Constitutional grounds.
    So what?
    That doesn't mean it was right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Right, and the SS is the body designated by the Constitution to determine what is Constituional. I find nothing in the Constition about giving that power instead to wingnut armchair lawyers on political forums.
    It does give me power, it says so right there in the Constitution.
    The powers not delegated to the government are delegated to the states or the people.

    I am one of the people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    As interpreted by the SS.
    I find it so ironic that you decry Bush, yet support a president who was infinitely more fascist than Bush ever was or could be.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #225
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That is US government debt. Not a deficit from the operation of SS. SS has been so successful, the proceeds have been used to offset the cost of wars and other government spending.
    I'm quite aware of what it is.
    Any other organization would be legally obligated to present it as a valid debt, but the good ole U.S. government can play dishonest and not do the same thing.

    Weird that you support dishonesty.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #226
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    The Great Depression had nothing to do with taxes. It was Federal Reserve policy that killed the economy. Nothing our government could do about it. It also didn't help that Hoover greatly increased federal spending during his term in office.

    Most social programs in the 1930s didn't have a lasting effect on the US economy (a few exceptions such as the FHA), nor did many have a positive one. The strongest middle class came during and after the war. America went from producing war goods to consumer goods almost overnight. This caused an economic boom. There was also a desire to house veterans which helped lead to the growth of suburbs.
    "Top 5 Causes of the Great Depression

    What caused the Great Depression, the worst economic depression in US history? It was not just one factor, but instead a combination of domestic and worldwide conditions that led to the Great Depression. As such, there is no agreed upon list of all its causes. Here instead is a list of the top reasons that historians and economists have cited as causing the Great Depression.

    The effects of the Great Depression was huge across the world. Not only did it lead to the New Deal in America but more significantly, it was a direct cause of the rise of extremism in Germany leading to World War II.
    1. Stock Market Crash of 1929
    Many believe erroneously that the stock market crash that occurred on Black Tuesday, October 29, 1929 is one and the same with the Great Depression. In fact, it was one of the major causes that led to the Great Depression. Two months after the original crash in October, stockholders had lost more than $40 billion dollars. Even though the stock market began to regain some of its losses, by the end of 1930, it just was not enough and America truly entered what is called the Great Depression.

    2. Bank Failures
    Throughout the 1930s over 9,000 banks failed. Bank deposits were uninsured and thus as banks failed people simply lost their savings. Surviving banks, unsure of the economic situation and concerned for their own survival, stopped being as willing to create new loans. This exacerbated the situation leading to less and less expenditures.
    3. Reduction in Purchasing Across the Board
    With the stock market crash and the fears of further economic woes, individuals from all classes stopped purchasing items. This then led to a reduction in the number of items produced and thus a reduction in the workforce. As people lost their jobs, they were unable to keep up with paying for items they had bought through installment plans and their items were repossessed. More and more inventory began to accumulate. The unemployment rate rose above 25% which meant, of course, even less spending to help alleviate the economic situation.
    4. American Economic Policy with Europe
    As businesses began failing, the government created the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930 to help protect American companies. This charged a high tax for imports thereby leading to less trade between America and foreign countries along with some economic retaliation.
    5. Drought Conditions
    While not a direct cause of the Great Depression, the drought that occurred in the Mississippi Valley in 1930 was of such proportions that many could not even pay their taxes or other debts and had to sell their farms for no profit to themselves. This was the topic of John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath."
    Great Depression - Top Five Causes of the Great Depression
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-19-11 at 03:43 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  7. #227
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I'm quite aware of what it is.
    Any other organization would be legally obligated to present it as a valid debt, but the good ole U.S. government can play dishonest and not do the same thing.

    Weird that you support dishonesty.
    I don't support it. I voted for the guy who proposed locking the funds so they couldn't be used to offset other spending. Who did you vote for?

    The point is the SS system itself is extremely well managed and does what it was intended to do, as it has for the last 80 years.
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-19-11 at 03:51 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #228
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't support it. I voted for the guy who proposed locking the funds so they couldn't be used to offset other spending. Who did you vote for?

    The point is the SS system itself is extremely well managed and does what it was intended to do, as it has for the last 80 years.
    If it was extremely well managed the money wouldn't have been spent to cause an internal government debt.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #229
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Moderator's Warning:
    Should we Eliminate Social Security?Henrin has been thread banned,
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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  10. #230
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "Top 5 Causes of the Great Depression

    What caused the Great Depression, the worst economic depression in US history? It was not just one factor, but instead a combination of domestic and worldwide conditions that led to the Great Depression. As such, there is no agreed upon list of all its causes. Here instead is a list of the top reasons that historians and economists have cited as causing the Great Depression.

    The effects of the Great Depression was huge across the world. Not only did it lead to the New Deal in America but more significantly, it was a direct cause of the rise of extremism in Germany leading to World War II.
    1. Stock Market Crash of 1929
    Many believe erroneously that the stock market crash that occurred on Black Tuesday, October 29, 1929 is one and the same with the Great Depression. In fact, it was one of the major causes that led to the Great Depression. Two months after the original crash in October, stockholders had lost more than $40 billion dollars. Even though the stock market began to regain some of its losses, by the end of 1930, it just was not enough and America truly entered what is called the Great Depression.

    2. Bank Failures
    Throughout the 1930s over 9,000 banks failed. Bank deposits were uninsured and thus as banks failed people simply lost their savings. Surviving banks, unsure of the economic situation and concerned for their own survival, stopped being as willing to create new loans. This exacerbated the situation leading to less and less expenditures.
    3. Reduction in Purchasing Across the Board
    With the stock market crash and the fears of further economic woes, individuals from all classes stopped purchasing items. This then led to a reduction in the number of items produced and thus a reduction in the workforce. As people lost their jobs, they were unable to keep up with paying for items they had bought through installment plans and their items were repossessed. More and more inventory began to accumulate. The unemployment rate rose above 25% which meant, of course, even less spending to help alleviate the economic situation.
    4. American Economic Policy with Europe
    As businesses began failing, the government created the Smoot-Hawley Tariff in 1930 to help protect American companies. This charged a high tax for imports thereby leading to less trade between America and foreign countries along with some economic retaliation.
    5. Drought Conditions
    While not a direct cause of the Great Depression, the drought that occurred in the Mississippi Valley in 1930 was of such proportions that many could not even pay their taxes or other debts and had to sell their farms for no profit to themselves. This was the topic of John Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath."
    Great Depression - Top Five Causes of the Great Depression
    Eh, I question your source. Your source is from someone who majored in history, not economics. The Stock Market Crash isn't relevant to the Great Depression. The run on banks is essentially what I had said. The Federal Reserve acts as a lender of last resort so as to prevent bank runs. However, the policies of the Federal Reserve did nothing to prevent such banks runs in the 1930s. Also, the Weimar Republican was hit with hyperinflation well before the Great Depression and I consider that and the Treaty of Versailles to be the two biggest causes of the Nazi Party takeover.

    Bernanke: Federal Reserve caused Great Depression
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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