View Poll Results: Should we Eliminate Social Security

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  • Yes, no replacement

    18 30.00%
  • Yes, but with a replacement

    11 18.33%
  • No, we should wait until it goes bankrupt

    1 1.67%
  • No, its not going to go bankrupt

    26 43.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

  1. #211
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    the 1930's. you got them confused with the 1920's
    Nope, you do. The Great Depression began in 1929 and the social programs that created the strongest middle class began in the 30's.
    but the "period where our middle class was strongest" breaks down into two decades; the 1920's (when the middle class was largely created out of formerly lower class people) and the 1980's (when huge numbers of the middle class began to move up the ladder into the upper middle and upper classes).
    Every time the American people have been suckered into lowering the taxes on the wealty it ends the same way, in a recession. How did the 20's end up?



    you seem to have "strength" confused with "flatlining". in reality, the average poor person today lives a life similar to the average middle class person circa the ever-vaunted 1950's. the 50's were only celebrated because they were experienced by people whose memories were dominated by the Great Depression and WWII
    .

    The 50's only required one bread winner in the family to stay above the poverty line, today more and more of the middle class are sliding into poverty with both parents working. We narrowly avoided another Deoression through the stimulus spending and we've had multiple wars that have lasted much longer than WWII. At the same time the wealth of those at the top has been increasing. And you are surpised the middle class is starting to buck?


    incidentally, the 'boom of the 50's? was kicked off by a massive reduction in government spending
    I'm all for massive cuts in spending. Let's start by reducing our military spending by one fifth and ending our optional wars.

    Look at what our military spending level was in the 50's.


    popping the cap wouldn't give us nearly enough revenue to meet our liabilities. and given that the program is already running a deficit, the "lock the funds" idea is pretty much locking the barn after the horse has escaped.
    It is not running a deficit. All payments have been made without adding to the National debt.

    so your suggestion here wouldn't solve the problem.
    If you find evidence to support that claim be sure to let me know.

    now that is generally true. Was it Twain who said that? That "Democracy ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."?
    Yep, and he was absolutely correct. How can we expect a representative government to be smarter than the group of people they come from?
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-19-11 at 02:48 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #212
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    The Preamble is part of the Constitution, and is a very rough outline of the extent of the government's powers.

    Exactly, the Preamble describes the intent of the Constitution.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #213
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Thats for the courts to decide. If they decide it isn't, which in my memory they haven't, then it is allowable. The wonderful thing about the Constitution, is that if you have a question about the constitutionality of something, you can take it to the courts. Given that we've had many of these social programs since FDR, their constitutionality is not a question.

    If you recall, the AAA was declared unconstitutional back then. So, the courts were active around the time SS was passed, adding to the fact that its obviously constitutional. If you think it isn't, find a case to argue against it.
    FDR threatened to pack the courts with people that would rubber stamp his policies.
    I wouldn't call it constitutional with that in mind.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  4. #214
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post

    You have still not shown that the Preamble may not be included as powers granted to the government. Furthermore, the evidence in its entirety points to the constitutionality of SS, which was the original debate.
    Can you tell me how its necessary for the country? Just wondering.

    I will say this what I said earlier about me correcting myself you seemed to ignore. In order for something to be necessary it has to do more than just be something you need.

  5. #215
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    FDR threatened to pack the courts with people that would rubber stamp his policies.
    I wouldn't call it constitutional with that in mind.
    So your point is that if either party has a majority in the Court, their rulings are invalid and don't have to be followed?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #216
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    It is not running a deficit. All payments have been made without adding to the National debt.
    That doesn't look honest. It is a ponzi scheme, paying out far more (and headed for broke)... last I checked. Not counting the negative balance either occuring now or in the near future is claiming sustainability where there is not.

    I'm no economist, how about a review of the balance sheet?

  7. #217
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So your point is that if either party has a majority in the Court, their rulings are invalid and don't have to be followed?
    That isn't what I said.
    When a person has to threaten the supreme court with a loss of power in order to get them to comply, it shows that the laws or policies in question, are not based on valid legal theory.

    Ruling of the law are based on factual meaning, not **** we make up as we go along.

    The Constitution was supposed to be the supreme law of the land, was not supposed to be reinterpreted as time went on, otherwise they would have never included an amending process.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  8. #218
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That doesn't look honest. It is a ponzi scheme, paying out far more (and headed for broke)... last I checked. Not counting the negative balance either occuring now or in the near future is claiming sustainability where there is not.

    I'm no economist, how about a review of the balance sheet?
    It's not added to the national debt, but the debt still exists.
    It's a nifty little accounting trick the only the government is allowed to get away with.

    If you added up both, internal and external liabilities of the Federal government, it would make you crap kittens.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #219
    Disappointed Evolutionist
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That doesn't look honest. It is a ponzi scheme, paying out far more (and headed for broke)... last I checked. Not counting the negative balance either occuring now or in the near future is claiming sustainability where there is not.

    I'm no economist, how about a review of the balance sheet?
    Contrary to the widespread myth further forwarded by the commission, Social Security is neither going broke nor causing our federal deficits. It never contributed and, unless the law is changed, never will contribute a penny to the debt. It is self-financing, has no borrowing authority, and cannot pay benefits unless it has the income on hand to cover the entire cost.

    Today, Social Security is running surpluses and will be in sound financial shape for nearly three decades. Even after that, its long-term shortfall can be addressed easily without cuts. If a corporation could make such claims to its shareholders, it would be cause for champagne, not gloom and doom."
    Cutting Social Security will not fix the national debt - CSMonitor.com
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  10. #220
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Contrary to the widespread myth further forwarded by the commission, Social Security is neither going broke nor causing our federal deficits. It never contributed and, unless the law is changed, never will contribute a penny to the debt. It is self-financing, has no borrowing authority, and cannot pay benefits unless it has the income on hand to cover the entire cost.

    Today, Social Security is running surpluses and will be in sound financial shape for nearly three decades. Even after that, its long-term shortfall can be addressed easily without cuts. If a corporation could make such claims to its shareholders, it would be cause for champagne, not gloom and doom."
    Cutting Social Security will not fix the national debt - CSMonitor.com
    Oh really.

    Quote Originally Posted by MSNBC
    New congressional projections also show Social Security running permanent annual deficits unless lawmakers act to shore up the massive retirement and disability program.

    CBO said that Social Security will pay out $45 billion more in benefits this year than it will collect in payroll taxes, further straining the nation's finances. The deficits will continue until the Social Security trust funds are eventually drained, in about 2037.
    CBO: U.S. budget deficit to hit $1.5 trillion - Politics - More politics - msnbc.com

    MSNBC and CBO > than opinion collumn on CSM
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 04-19-11 at 03:26 AM.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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