View Poll Results: Should we Eliminate Social Security

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  • Yes, no replacement

    18 30.00%
  • Yes, but with a replacement

    11 18.33%
  • No, we should wait until it goes bankrupt

    1 1.67%
  • No, its not going to go bankrupt

    26 43.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

  1. #201
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Necessary and Proper Clause-Wiki



    Chief Justice Marshall and the Supreme Court already countered your argument against Social Security, and backed up my argument for its continued constitutionality in McCulloch v. Maryland.

    Oh no you have court cases! What will ever do! Btw, that court case proves my point. Can you find out how?
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-19-11 at 02:07 AM.

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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Which provision should I do next?
    If you can find one that says Congress cannot promote the general welfare and all that, I'd appreciate it, because you can clearly see something I can't.
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  3. #203
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Oh no you have court cases! What will ever do! Btw, that court case proves my point. Can you find out how?
    If you want to make a point, say it.
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    If you can find one that says Congress cannot promote the general welfare and all that, I'd appreciate it, because you can clearly see something I can't.
    You do realize that is what I said earlier right? Learn to read or something.

  5. #205
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You do realize that is what I said earlier right? Learn to read or something.
    What you did was paraphrase the elastic clause so it said only ennumerated powers are allowed under it, thereby implying only the powers in Article 1, Section 8 are considered as such.

    The actual language of the clause is, and I'll quote it again, "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."
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  6. #206
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quoted from McCulloch v. Maryland:

    If the end be legitimate, and within the scope of the Constitution, all the means which are appropriate, which are plainly adapted to that end, and which are not prohibited, may constitutionally be employed to carry it into effect.

    ...

    If a certain means to carry into effect of any of the powers expressly given by the Constitution to the Government of the Union be an appropriate measure, not prohibited by the Constitution, the degree of its necessity is a question of legislative discretion, not of judicial cognizance.
    Now, the second part almost gives you an argument. However, unless you can give a clause that says the Preamble does not count as powers ennumerated to Congress, you have no legitimate argument.
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    If you want to make a point, say it.
    What did Marshall say exactly in his decision? Did he say

    A) If a decision comes up and the court has to decide on it that doesn't fit the powers of government this court has to allow it.

    B) the opposite.

    which are prohibited by the Constitution, or should Congress, under the pretext of executing its powers, pass laws for the accomplishment of objects not intrusted to the Government, it would become the painful duty of this tribunal, should a case requiring such a decision come before it, to say that such an act was not the law of the land."
    Yes, its the opposite. I didn't even have to click your link to find it. What is interesting is you missed the point of the definition so badly but ran right into the fire. Why did you act when you didn't understand? Frustration? Bad move.

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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes, its the opposite. I didn't even have to click your link to find it. What is interesting is you missed the point of the definition so badly but ran right into the fire. Why did you act when you didn't understand? Frustration? Bad move.
    Again, this comes down to whether the provisions of the Preamble may be included under the elastic clause.

    The Government of the Union, though limited in its powers, is supreme within its sphere of action, and its laws, when made in pursuance of the Constitution, form the supreme law of the land.
    Chief Justice Marshall was a smart man. He understood that the government may pursue the provisions granted to it beyond the letter of the law. At the same time, which you pointed out, if a law does not further an interest in the pursuit of the provisions, then the legislation/action is unconstitutional.

    The quote you provided didn't do anything for your argument except point out the obvious. The quote above is the opposite of your quotation, which goes to show that Marshall was essentially explaining this basic principle to any reader.

    You have still not shown that the Preamble may not be included as powers granted to the government. Furthermore, the evidence in its entirety points to the constitutionality of SS, which was the original debate.
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  9. #209
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What did Marshall say exactly in his decision? Did he say

    A) If a decision comes up and the court has to decide on it that doesn't fit the powers of government this court has to allow it.

    B) the opposite.
    And? I never said A, and if you want to go look for a post where I did, have fun, it isn't there.
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  10. #210
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Bite the bullet, pay those who have contributed and end it without a replacement. Social Security is a flawed system. A tip of the hat to FDR and the 74th Congress for passing this ponzi scheme.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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