View Poll Results: Should we Eliminate Social Security

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  • Yes, no replacement

    18 30.00%
  • Yes, but with a replacement

    11 18.33%
  • No, we should wait until it goes bankrupt

    1 1.67%
  • No, its not going to go bankrupt

    26 43.33%
  • Other

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

  1. #171
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Since I do not think economic depression is a good thing, I of course prefer the 80 year period when the middle class was the strongest?
    ah. so since you oppose economic depression; no doubt you also oppose the kinds of high-tax policies that we saw emplaced in the 1930's?

    There is no crisis, there is an easy fix. When it is neccesary, it will be implemented.
    the problem is, most of the necessary fix (raising the retirement age, tying the growth in benefits to inflation, means-testing) must be put into place years out if you are to allow people to plan. else we face a future where we will be forced to simply throw massive numbers of Americans off the system cold-turkey, with the parting advice that they should probably figure out how to make up the shortfall.

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac
    I sorta don't understand what's so hard to fix. Do we just figure on our politicians can't get anything done? Cause it doesn't seem that hard.
    the problem is that the incentives for politicians are to engage in short-term thinking rather than long-term thinking. So, if my opponent proposes a long-term fix for Social Security, and I can either join him in solving America's liability crises, or I can get reelected by demagouging him for doing so, the incentive structure for politicians is to demagogue, and let some other sucker down the road deal with the failures of today.

    the mathematics of fixing social security are relatively easy. the politics of it are hard.
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-19-11 at 12:23 AM.

  2. #172
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Make your case before the Conservative Court and let me know how it turns out.
    Oh so now you admit some partisanship. Good to know you can ignore reality and then notice reality as if no one will notice what you are doing. Court is good, pure, the rule of law, and now well its just a conservative court. Yes, good show my boy.

  3. #173
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ah. so since you oppose economic depression; no doubt you also oppose the kinds of high-tax policies that we saw emplaced in the 1930's?
    Please reference the depression during the 80 years of the strongest middle class in our history.



    the problem is, most of the necessary fix (raising the retirement age, tying the growth in benefits to inflation, means-testing) must be put into place years out if you are to allow people to plan. else we face a future where we will be forced to simply throw massive numbers of Americans off the system cold-turkey, with the parting advice that they should probably figure out how to make up the shortfall.
    None of that is necessary. All that is needed is to raise the FICA cap and lock the funds legislatively so they cannot be used to offset the cost of our optional wars and other government spending. And yes, It should be done now but Americans don't tend to think long-term. So until there is an actually crisis, my guess is we will not be taking the two simple steps I listed.



    the problem is that the incentives for politicians are to engage in short-term thinking rather than long-term thinking.
    That is because they represent us. We get the government we deserve.



    the mathematics of fixing social security are relatively easy. the politics of it are hard.
    Yep!
    Last edited by Catawba; 04-19-11 at 12:34 AM.
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  4. #174
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Pretty damn scary results so far.

    See, this is why they don't let people vote.

  5. #175
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Please reference the depression during the 80 years of the strongest middle class in our history.
    the 1930's. you got them confused with the 1920's

    but the "period where our middle class was strongest" breaks down into two decades; the 1920's (when the middle class was largely created out of formerly lower class people) and the 1980's (when huge numbers of the middle class began to move up the ladder into the upper middle and upper classes).

    you seem to have "strength" confused with "flatlining". in reality, the average poor person today lives a life similar to the average middle class person circa the ever-vaunted 1950's. the 50's were only celebrated because they were experienced by people whose memories were dominated by the Great Depression and WWII.

    incidentally, the 'boom of the 50's? was kicked off by a massive reduction in government spending


    None of that is necessary. All that is needed is to raise the FICA cap and lock the funds legislatively so they cannot be used to offset the cost of our optional wars and other government spending
    popping the cap wouldn't give us nearly enough revenue to meet our liabilities. and given that the program is already running a deficit, the "lock the funds" idea is pretty much locking the barn after the horse has escaped.

    so your suggestion here wouldn't solve the problem.

    That is because they represent us. We get the government we deserve.
    now that is generally true. Was it Twain who said that? That "Democracy ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve."?
    Last edited by cpwill; 04-19-11 at 12:46 AM.

  6. #176
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Pretty damn scary results so far.

    See, this is why they don't let people vote.
    yeah, i've long been in favor of some kind of basic poll test.

    "what are the three branches of government" type questions.

  7. #177
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So intention doesn't go into what clauses mean.

    Interesting logic...for a complete dipstick.
    Times they change. We once started out as a smaller country, with mostly a farming country that really did not need a "helping hand", then times changed now only like 4% of the country farms and we turned into a more industrialized country..


  8. #178
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Times they change. We once started out as a smaller country, with mostly a farming country that really did not need a "helping hand", then times changed now only like 4% of the country farms and we turned into a more industrialized country..
    Your point means nothing in relation to mine.

  9. #179
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    i think what he's saying is that people who live largely hand-to-mouth, performing backbreaking labor, and dependent upon strength and health in the most unhealthy conditions are somehow less vulnerable than people who work in climate-controlled workspaces where their chief source of sustenance provision is a difficult to damage set of mental abilities, and their wealth enables them to set aside large stores of accumulated savings for the future.

  10. #180
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    Re: Should we Eliminate Social Security?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so tell me

    without resorting to the FDR lapdog justices

    do you honestly think that the general welfare clause meant income redistribution? or the other wlefare schemes of today
    Does promote the general welfare mean income redistribution in and of itself is allowable? Probably not what the Founders intended. However, Social Security as a program is clearly allowed under the Preamble and its contents.

    But Social Security is not just income distribution.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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    The Only Thing to Fear is Fear Itself.
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