View Poll Results: Are people who want to defund PP anti-women?

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Thread: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

  1. #91
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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I consider freedom and responsibility the roots of the society. But that is just me. Your argument is meaningless as you have no idea as to what is actually important.
    A non-answer really. More of a talking point. Taxes are not taking any freedoms from ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So? They believe the welfare clause like yourself gives power. Their opinion means nothing to the meat of the argument as they haven't a clue.
    So 80 years worth of Judges means nothing to you...got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How does it save me money when without your programs I would pretty much pay nothing for these people?
    There are numerous ways. By prevention of pregnancies (IE contraception, education etc etc) there are less children born. Less children means less that the government has to pay for kids that end up on welfare or the foster care system or on medicaid. By getting early screenings for various diseases, std's etc etc you can catch them early on which gives a higher chance of success in curing them...which saves money as the later you catch a disease, std etc etc the more it takes to cure it/manage it which means more money is spent on it. These two examples are just the major ways of saving YOU money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    How does this support your stance? We can't have a strong society when people aren't accountable for themselves. You fail.
    How do you have a strong society when half the population is either too sick to work or live in the streets? Who is an employer more likely to hire? The person in a home, or the person living on the streets? Is an employer more likely going to hire the healthy person...or the unhealthy person?

    Today's society is not like it was two hundred years ago ya know. People can't just go find an unoccupied piece of land and settle it and grow/hunt for thier food anymore. Hell, you can't even go hunting anymore without having to get a license to kill a SPECIFIC type of animal, and even then you are limited to (normally) just shooting ONE animal...not to mention having to wait X amount of days/weeks before you can even get that gun that you buy...assuming that they just don't deny you owning a gun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you want a free house? Do you want free food? Do you want free healthcare? Do you want free transportation? Do you want free education? Do you want the government to provide what you say you need? Remember FDR wanted healthcare and housing and food. All of which is pretty much everything in life that you work to gain.
    No house is free to anyone. I've yet to see the government give away a house to anyone.

    Free food? What you want people to starve to death? You want our country to be like 3rd world countries which has no welfare program and children literally are eating dirt just so that the hunger pangs will go away for a little while? Now I'll certainly agree with you that our current system is abused to hell and back...but moaning and crying about it as if we would be far better off without it period is just ignorance or of the type of greed that I would consider borderline criminal.

    Free healthcare? Yeah...if you go to the emergency room and don't pay the bill I guess it is free. But what do you want? To just let people die?

    Free transportation? I'm going to assume you're talking about buses for kids to go to school? In today's society it just makes sense considering it take both parents working to pay for thiers and thier childs needs. Not to mention not all parents have vehicles to take them to school.

    Free education? What the hell is it that you think made this country strong? It was that free education that made it to where you are where you are today ya know. It is what made this country the super power that it is today. Every civilized country in the world today has free education. Compare these countries with those countries which has little to no government sponsored education...IE 3rd world countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I'm sorry, do you think people save money for retirement the way they should or do you think they spend more because social security will be there for them? Answer honestly if you can manage.
    Typical avoidance tactic. Avoid answering the question by asking one of your own.


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Theft is loss of freedom. The results of allowing the government to control your health is loss of freedom. I can go on if you wish. Do you wish it? If you dare mention that insurance does the same thing I will assume that you know of how insurance came to be.
    Taxes are not theft. It is those taxes which keeps this country not only running but also defended.....which means your rights are protected from those that WOULD take away your actual rights. It is those taxes which pays for those roads that you drive on. It is those taxes which pays policemen to protect you. It is those taxes which pays the firemen to put out the fire in your kitchen. It is those taxes which keeps people off the streets, healthy and fed in order to keep them working...which keeps our society working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Do you enjoy that people get a million dollars when you don't? Are you ok with it or do you want some of what they got?
    Personally I could care less, sure it'd be nice...but I won't go begging for it. However I know of no government welfare type program which hands poor people a million dollars.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Aka the rift..enjoy.
    There has been class warfare for thousands of years. People being on welfare is not the cause of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Your claim makes no sense, furthermore, its not an investment if I'm forced to investment. Also since I don't literally get that money in my pocketbook I don't care for your argument.
    Actually his claim is a bit off. The actual amount is for every dollar spent on PP the government saves four. But in anycase mayhap you should think about it. Use your critical thinking skills here. But here's a hint...its already been answered in this post.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What was the sentence you quoted again? You do enjoy bringing up things that don't actually argue the points you quote, but its pretty useless.
    Considering the thread is about FUNDING his reply to you was quite valid. Ya know...given the whole context of the thread and all.
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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I don't see how the name changes would help anything.
    The conservatives despise Planned Parenhood and ACORN. Loathe them. Is that a good thing in any way? Does that help either organization?

    Or does it cause them a lot of grief.?

    There is nothing either of them could do change their reputation. So abandon the names. Simple.

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    A non-answer really. More of a talking point. Taxes are not taking any freedoms from ya.
    Ask anyone that loves freedom and they will tell you that paying for something they have no interest to pay for and is not for them is taking their freedom to spend their money on what they want. The fact is facts look like talking points to the people not in the know.

    So 80 years worth of Judges means nothing to you...got it.
    80 years of progressive judges, yes, means nothing to me. They're either dead fools, or alive fools and either way they're fools.

    There are numerous ways. By prevention of pregnancies (IE contraception, education etc etc) there are less children born. Less children means less that the government has to pay for kids that end up on welfare or the foster care system or on medicaid.
    Sounds like you are proving my point.

    By getting early screenings for various diseases, std's etc etc you can catch them early on which gives a higher chance of success in curing them...which saves money as the later you catch a disease, std etc etc the more it takes to cure it/manage it which means more money is spent on it. These two examples are just the major ways of saving YOU money.
    How does it save me money if those programs are unconstitutional and if people should have to treat their own problems? What is actually happening is progressive ways to fix a problem has made the connections in society painful for all.

    How do you have a strong society when half the population is either too sick to work or live in the streets? Who is an employer more likely to hire? The person in a home, or the person living on the streets? Is an employer more likely going to hire the healthy person...or the unhealthy person?
    Why is half the population in the streets dieing and where can I go and see it?

    Today's society is not like it was two hundred years ago ya know. People can't just go find an unoccupied piece of land and settle it and grow/hunt for thier food anymore. Hell, you can't even go hunting anymore without having to get a license to kill a SPECIFIC type of animal, and even then you are limited to (normally) just shooting ONE animal...not to mention having to wait X amount of days/weeks before you can even get that gun that you buy...assuming that they just don't deny you owning a gun.
    Not sure of your point here, sorry. How does this get back to what I said?


    No house is free to anyone. I've yet to see the government give away a house to anyone.
    Australia gives people houses. It results in drug addicts getting homes, destroying them and then asking for another home. Look up public housing in Australia if you wish to find out more. Btw, free housing was in second new deal which FDR was pushing when he died, which was revoked by congress after his death and never went anywhere.

    Free food? What you want people to starve to death? You want our country to be like 3rd world countries which has no welfare program and children literally are eating dirt just so that the hunger pangs will go away for a little while? Now I'll certainly agree with you that our current system is abused to hell and back...but moaning and crying about it as if we would be far better off without it period is just ignorance or of the type of greed that I would consider borderline criminal.
    Do I want them to starve? I want to have a choice if I want to feed them. Get some perspective.

    Free healthcare? Yeah...if you go to the emergency room and don't pay the bill I guess it is free. But what do you want? To just let people die?
    I want a service to be treated like a service, not a right that the people that provide it are slaves to the people that need their service. If they need it they can pay for it or figure out a way to do so. That is all I'm saying on it.

    Free transportation? I'm going to assume you're talking about buses for kids to go to school? In today's society it just makes sense considering it take both parents working to pay for thiers and thier childs needs. Not to mention not all parents have vehicles to take them to school.
    I was more talking about trains and such, but yes buses for children works as well, but than I'm against public schooling so its kind of implied by that view.

    Free education? What the hell is it that you think made this country strong? It was that free education that made it to where you are where you are today ya know.
    No its not..

    It is what made this country the super power that it is today. Every civilized country in the world today has free education. Compare these countries with those countries which has little to no government sponsored education...IE 3rd world countries.
    Capitalism is what made us great, freedom is what made us great. It was what made society as far back as Greece and Rome great. What has destroyed society's since those time however is social programs and over reaching government like we have.

    Typical avoidance tactic. Avoid answering the question by asking one of your own.
    Do people save money for retirement the way that they should or are they dependent. It wasn't an avoidance tactic it is part of my entire point of the series of posts.

    Taxes are not theft. It is those taxes which keeps this country not only running but also defended.....which means your rights are protected from those that WOULD take away your actual rights. It is those taxes which pays for those roads that you drive on. It is those taxes which pays policemen to protect you. It is those taxes which pays the firemen to put out the fire in your kitchen.
    Fires should be left for the market and roads are not needed. Police however are best handled by the government. Taxes are good when handling things like national security but theft when handling personal interests of individual persons.

    It is those taxes which keeps people off the streets, healthy and fed in order to keep them working...which keeps our society working.
    You could do just as much yourself, just like I could. We don't need government to keep people off the streets.

    Personally I could care less, sure it'd be nice...but I won't go begging for it. However I know of no government welfare type program which hands poor people a million dollars.
    Not my point. People are angry because CEO's make millions of dollars or even billions and to the most part only because they aren't earning that much.

    There has been class warfare for thousands of years. People being on welfare is not the cause of it.
    The mindset is the problem. Welfare programs just strength that mindset in the people. That mindset is a cancer on society and as you have just said has been for thousands of years. Its about time we as species gets past it.

    Actually his claim is a bit off. The actual amount is for every dollar spent on PP the government saves four. But in anycase mayhap you should think about it. Use your critical thinking skills here. But here's a hint...its already been answered in this post.
    Why should I care?

    Considering the thread is about FUNDING his reply to you was quite valid. Ya know...given the whole context of the thread and all.
    Considering that most things people take like the morning after pill kill of pregnancy I would say you know my answer to if they actually fund for it or not.
    Last edited by Henrin; 04-18-11 at 11:02 AM.

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    The conservatives despise Planned Parenhood and ACORN. Loathe them. Is that a good thing in any way? Does that help either organization?

    Or does it cause them a lot of grief.?

    There is nothing either of them could do change their reputation. So abandon the names. Simple.
    ahem..Acorn has actually changed the name of its some of its branches after the last problem came up.

    Is that going to avoid the problem however? Hardly. I know about it and many other people that hate Acorn know about it and in time everyone will. It will give them sweet dreams for a moment but in time they will just be right back where they are. In time, bad ideas that are pushed are generally found with great ease.

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    ahem..Acorn has actually changed the name of its some of its branches after the last problem came up.

    Is that going to avoid the problem however? Hardly. I know about it and many other people that hate Acorn know about it and in time everyone will. It will give them sweet dreams for a moment but in time they will just be right back where they are. In time, bad ideas that are pushed are generally found with great ease.
    They have? Ok I made a couple of calls.

    It's just too easy to change a name and move on.. Only the people needing help matter,

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I keep hearing how the act of defunding PP is anti-women. Do you believe this is true?
    No, but I do believe they are single issue idealogues who often put ideaology over praticality and in the end hurt people more than is neccessary. But that doesn't mean they're anti-women.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mellie View Post
    I say no. People who want PP defunded believe so not because they are anti-women, but pro-children.
    I didn't go through the responses and so this may be redundant, but I wanted you to know that this is not true for at least me. I am pro-choice generally from a legal standpoint (against abortion from a moral standpoint) and I want PP to be de-government-funded. I DO hope that if it is defunded, private contributions will be able to maintain their services though. I just don't think it's the government's place to fund PP.

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    I said

    Oh..crap, I don't know why we are even bothering discussing it. It will not happen as long as Obama is in office. Planned Parenthood helped get him elected and he's not about to let them down now, so close to 2012.
    Catawa asked
    How did PP help get Obama elected?
    I stand by,
    As long as Obama's in office PP will continue to get federal funds. It won't matter if we find thousands of born alive aborted babies in their dumpsters. Obama needs them.




    YouTube - Barack Obama Addresses Planned Parenthood

    Planned Parenthood Action Fund Endorses Barack Obama - Planned Parenthood Action Center

    The Planned Parenthood Action Fund, the political and advocacy arm of Planned Parenthood Federation of America, today announced its endorsement of Sen. Barack Obama for president of the United States.
    This marks only the second time in Planned Parenthood's history that the Action Fund has made an endorsement in a presidential campaign. Last month, the board of the national Planned Parenthood Action Fund voted unanimously to recommend endorsing Senator Obama. That recommendation was ratified by Planned Parenthood's local action organizations, which represent the interests of all 100 Planned Parenthood affiliates.
    Obama pledged to Planned Parenthood: "I will not yield" to pro-life concerns :: Catholic News Agency (CNA)
    In the July 17 speech, Obama attacked the Supreme Court decision that upheld the federal partial-birth abortion ban and the nomination of Supreme Court justices who favor overturning Roe v. Wade. In the speech the senator said, "There will always be people, many of goodwill, who do not share my view on the issue of choice. On this fundamental issue,
    I will not yield and Planned Parenthood will not yield
    ."
    Obama Abortion Dodges Blessed by Planned Parenthood - Political Radar
    ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.
    "
    We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time . . . because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."
    Speaking to ABC News as Obama was preparing to join Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and the wife of Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., in addressing Planned Parenthood’s national conference in Washington, D.C., Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting "present." She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office.
    "He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I consider freedom and responsibility the roots of the society.
    Me too, but for all Americans.



    So? They believe the welfare clause like yourself gives power. Their opinion means nothing to the meat of the argument as they haven't a clue.
    Only for those of us that believe in the rule of law then I suppose.



    How does it save me money when without your programs I would pretty much pay nothing for these people?
    By reducing health care costs later in life. Throwing people to the streets is not an option.



    How does this support your stance? We can't have a strong society when people aren't accountable for themselves. You fail.
    We are only as strong as the weakest among us. When all Americans are stronger and healthier, so is our country.



    Do you want a free house? Do you want free food? Do you want free healthcare? Do you want free transportation? Do you want free education? Do you want the government to provide what you say you need? Remember FDR wanted healthcare and housing and food. All of which is pretty much everything in life that you work to gain.
    I have a house, food, healthcare, transportation, and education. My concern is for those less fortunate who do not.


    I'm sorry, do you think people save money for retirement the way they should or do you think they spend more because social security will be there for them? Answer honestly if you can manage.
    I think there are many who cannot manage due to various circumstances mostly not in their control.






    Theft is loss of freedom. The results of allowing the government to control your health is loss of freedom. I can go on if you wish. Do you wish it? If you dare mention that insurance does the same thing I will assume that you know of how insurance came to be.
    What theft? I believe in the rule of law.




    I'm sorry, how does that refute anything I Just said?
    Many of us have to contribute to things we don't believe in like the war for oil in Iraq.



    Do you enjoy that people get a million dollars when you don't? Are you ok with it or do you want some of what they got?
    I don't want what they have but I expect them to pay their fair share just like the middle class does.



    Did I say there was no successful people? Can you quote it?
    You said,
    Did you ever consider that social programs allow people to justify hating success?
    I saw none of that during the 80 years of the social programs that created the strongest middle class in our history.






    Your claim makes no sense, furthermore, its not an investment if I'm forced to investment. Also since I don't literally get that money in my pocketbook I don't care for your argument.
    You seem to be under the notion that our only committments are to our own personal greed. If we want a strong country we have to consider the needs of everyone, not just our own.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Are people who wants to defund Planned Parenthood anti-women?

    Quote Originally Posted by Helvidius View Post
    Hey, no arguments here. I wish that money had never been spent or at least have been spent on domestic programs...
    The constitution calls for the government to provide for our defense. You may argue that we are in wars that we shouldn't be in, but taking tax payer dollars to pay for them is still constitutional.
    I'm not so sure about the funding of PP, NPR, PBS, NEA.
    Catawa is my favorite bleeding heart liberal.
    1/27/12

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