• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  • Total voters
    52
Redress said:
If you think America sucks and are actively working to make it better(whatever "better" is for you), that is almost exactly my definition of a good citizen. To give you an example you might appreciate, I think the Tea Party is misguided and foolish, however, I think the fact they are working so hard to make the country better as they see it makes them good citizens, even though I disagree with their vision of "better".

I don't think thoughts make you a good citizen, I think it is what you do, the actions you take. So by that, pride in country is entirely irrelevant to how I would define "good citizen".
Click to expand...

If someone is working to change the country into something our founding fathers never meant it to be, he is not a good citizen.
 
Redress said:
Typically true, but we cannot see another person's thoughts, and as such we have to judge them on their actions. Since "good citizen" is a value judgment, I don't worry about what the person is thinking, just what they are doing. To continue my example from earlier, there are, I am sure, those within the Tea Party who are there because they hate that a black man got uppity and ended up in the White House. Now, those people are the exception, and I repeat again that I do not think the Tea Party is racist in any way, but any group has racists, and to deny that such people exist in the Tea Party is silly(it is equally silly to deny that such people exist in the democratic, republican and libertarian parties). Now, these peoples' thoughts are vile to my mind, but their actions, the part I can see, are not, and are working towards their vision of a better America.

That is not a great example, but it's the best I can come up with off the top of my head.
Click to expand...

I don't think the democratic party is racist either, though they sure did love grand poopa Robert KKK Byrd.
 
Barbbtx said:
If someone is working to change the country into something our founding fathers never meant it to be, he is not a good citizen.
Click to expand...

because you are the sole interpreter of what our founding fathers intended?
 
X Factor said:
So is the "my country is always wrong" refrain.
Unless the dissent comes from the TEA party, then it's just violent/racist rhetoric we need to be concerned about. ;)
Click to expand...

Naa my country has been right many times... Defeating Nazi Germany in the Western front, making all these social programs that help out people, etc etc.
 
Barbbtx said:
If someone is working to change the country into something our founding fathers never meant it to be, he is not a good citizen.
Click to expand...

Right........
Sense we all lived back in the 1700's... Times change we once lived in a small farming country, now were fully industrialized giant country... Times change..
 
megaprogman said:
Since there are a few threads about pride in one's country popular today, I figured I would ask this basic question. There are certain qualities that generally fall under the heading of being a good citizen, at least according to most people such as:

1. Legal compliance
2. Be a moral person (don't seek to take advantage of people, no stealing, no killing, etc)
3. Be an active member of something that betters the community (like a church or charity)
4. Civic obligations such as paying taxes, jury duty, the draft, etc
5. Holding a job
6. (other things, the rest are just examples)

The question is, should pride in one's country be on this sort of list?
Click to expand...

When you take everything into consideration, weighing the good and the bad, imo your net opinion should be that you are proud of your country.
 
It's not who I am underneath, but what I *do* that defines me.

Patriotic__Batman_by_CHADBOVEY.jpg
 
Barbbtx said:
Do you think they wanted us to be a nation of socialists?
Click to expand...

i think you have a very warped definition of socialism, and i think you watch too much right wing tv. i recommend thinking, instead.
 
You don't have to have pride in your country to be a good citizen. But you do have to have the pride to be a patriot.
 
Barbbtx said:
If someone is working to change the country into something our founding fathers never meant it to be, he is not a good citizen.
Click to expand...

A nation is a dynamic entity. It moves with its population - therefore, our application of the Constitution will change in every generation because every generation is met with new discoveries, new innovations and new political concerns.
 
Redress said:
Typically true, but we cannot see another person's thoughts, and as such we have to judge them on their actions. Since "good citizen" is a value judgment, I don't worry about what the person is thinking, just what they are doing. To continue my example from earlier, there are, I am sure, those within the Tea Party who are there because they hate that a black man got uppity and ended up in the White House. Now, those people are the exception, and I repeat again that I do not think the Tea Party is racist in any way, but any group has racists, and to deny that such people exist in the Tea Party is silly(it is equally silly to deny that such people exist in the democratic, republican and libertarian parties). Now, these peoples' thoughts are vile to my mind, but their actions, the part I can see, are not, and are working towards their vision of a better America.

That is not a great example, but it's the best I can come up with off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Do you believe Westboro Baptists or Code Pink are good citizens? Sometimes value judgments can be fairly (and even objectively) made.
 
Last edited:
liblady said:
i think you have a very warped definition of socialism, and i think you watch too much right wing tv. i recommend thinking, instead.
Click to expand...

I think you have a warped view of America if you think socialism should play a major part.
Socialism takes away personal responsibilty.
Personal responsibility is what makes it possible for us to pursue happiness.
Socialism comes with a heavy price tag. I'm not willing to give up my God given rights for "free" stuff.
Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer freedom.
 
Barbbtx said:
I think you have a warped view of America if you think socialism should play a major part.
Socialism takes away personal responsibilty.
Personal responsibility is what makes it possible for us to pursue happiness.
Socialism comes with a heavy price tag. I'm not willing to give up my God given rights for "free" stuff.
Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer freedom.
Click to expand...

I think liblady was making the point that most DEMOCRATS AREN'T SOCIALISTS.
 
theplaydrive said:
I think liblady was making the point that most DEMOCRATS AREN'T SOCIALISTS.
Click to expand...

No they just keep pushing for socialist elements in the government, such as nationalized health-care, gun control, income subsidy, etc.

Yes, democrats are generally socialists.
 
Jerry said:
No they just keep pushing for socialist elements in the government, such as nationalized health-care, gun control, income subsidy, etc.

Yes, democrats are generally socialists.
Click to expand...

so·cial·ism   
[soh-shuh-liz-uhm]
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

The majority of democrats are not in favor of this. If you want actual socialist policies, go to many places in Europe where being on the left actually means being on the left and Democrats in the United States would be considered conservative.
 
theplaydrive said:
so·cial·ism   
[soh-shuh-liz-uhm]
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

The majority of democrats are not in favor of this. If you want actual socialist policies, go to many places in Europe where being on the left actually means being on the left and Democrats in the United States would be considered conservative.
Click to expand...




**** Europe anyway they can't even handle to guys kissing in front of a bar without getting their berets crinkled.
 
Yes and no.

On the other hand, it is hard for me to see why this country should not be something you could be proud of.
 
I'd argue that the best thing a citizen can do is to criticize. It means they haven't settled and believe in making their country better.

Perfect is inherently unattainable. Striving to push your country closer to that unattainable ideal is truly admirable.
 
At any rate, I don't think pride or shame or hate or love or indifference factor into whether you're a good citizen -- it's what you do either because of or despite these feelings that makes you a good anything.

Barbbtx said:
If someone is working to change the country into something our founding fathers never meant it to be, he is not a good citizen.
Click to expand...

Our founding fathers couldn't agree on what this country was meant to be. What we ended up was largely the product of compromise and competing interests watching each other suspiciously.

Barbbtx said:
You don't have to be proud of the country in every circumstance to be a good citizen. However if you think America sucks in general and want to fundamentally transform it, you can't be a good citizen here. Be one elsewhere please.
Click to expand...

Our country has undergone a number of fundamental changes since its birth. Are you saying that those who pushed for those changes weren't good citizens?

It seems to me that if you think something sucks in general, working to fundamentally transform it is the most productive thing you can do about the situation.
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
Just pointing out the painfully obvious.
Click to expand...

Speaking of painfully obvious, she is not an individual. She is a representative. She has a constituency who put her into power, and funds her, and she not alone among representatives.
 
Jerry said:
Speaking of painfully obvious, she is not an individual. She is a representative. She has a constituency who put her into power, and funds her, and she not alone among representatives.
Click to expand...

Speaking of painfully obvious, pointing out that one California Senator wants to socialize one specific industry doesn't come anywhere near refuting the comment, "The majority of democrats are not in favor of [socialism]." Not even when you point out that she represents other people.

Unless, of course, you're positing that the majority of Democrats in this country live in California, and that they all voted for her. :lol:
 
Some pride, of course, but never "blind pride".There are many things which can be better, much better.
But, do we have the people for this ??
For instance, in PA we have over 500 school districts, which is wasteful and duplicitous. Also the supervisors are horribly over -paid ($300K salary in some cases....There is a huge amount of reform necessary, yet little happens..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom