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Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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Slartibartfast

Slartibartfast

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Since there are a few threads about pride in one's country popular today, I figured I would ask this basic question. There are certain qualities that generally fall under the heading of being a good citizen, at least according to most people such as:

1. Legal compliance
2. Be a moral person (don't seek to take advantage of people, no stealing, no killing, etc)
3. Be an active member of something that betters the community (like a church or charity)
4. Civic obligations such as paying taxes, jury duty, the draft, etc
5. Holding a job
6. (other things, the rest are just examples)

The question is, should pride in one's country be on this sort of list?
 
No, you can be ashamed at times. Countries take licks, make mistakes, and fall down sometimes. It's fine to feel wrong, it doesn't mean you're any less of a citizen.
 
SE102 said:
No, you can be ashamed at times. Countries take licks, make mistakes, and fall down sometimes. It's fine to feel wrong, it doesn't mean you're any less of a citizen.
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Citizenship is a legal status and doesn't address the thrust of the question. The question is whether one is a good citizen. Good, of course, is fully a subjective term, so it depends on your point of view.
 
IMO being a good citizen means not breaking the law and paying your debts for society. (taxes etc.)

The rest is more of being a good person, and that's quite the relative term there.
 
I tend to believe so; i don't think someone could be, let's say instead, an awesome citizen if they didn't have pride for their own country. Having pride for your country does not mean you agree with everything that goes on in it, but you respect the system and it's people, and that does make you a good citizen.
 
You don't have to be proud of the country in every circumstance to be a good citizen. However if you think America sucks in general and want to fundamentally transform it, you can't be a good citizen here. Be one elsewhere please.
 
Barbbtx said:
You don't have to be proud of the country in every circumstance to be a good citizen. However if you think America sucks in general and want to fundamentally transform it, you can't be a good citizen here. Be one elsewhere please.
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A few questions.
1. What if a person is basically neutral towards their nation or perhaps all nations? (neutral instead of thinking its great or it sucks)
2. What is it about not feeling proud of your nation or thinking it sucks that prevents one from being a good citizen?
 
I tend to think of them as two different issues. I believe I am a good citizen, based on what everyone seems to be including as characteristics of such. I am also proud of my country. The fact I am less proud of it at times (I am NEVER not proud, mind you) doesn't negate the things about me I feel make me a good citizen.
 
If you can't find any reason to take pride in this country (since this is the one I'm a citizen of) then you just don't want to and would clearly rather focus (or manufacture) the negative.

This'll be an interesting poll. I have a feeling it'll pretty much fall along party lines.

Edit: Looks like this post ended Mega's string of "likes". LOL (I point that out w/ tongue firmly in cheek.)
 
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Apocalypse said:
IMO being a good citizen means not breaking the law and paying your debts for society. (taxes etc.)

The rest is more of being a good person, and that's quite the relative term there.
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What if that same citizen who obeys the laws, pays his taxes, gives to charities etc, goes out of his way to bad mouth the very country that made those things possible? If he is burning the Flag on his day off from being a good citizen, is he really a good citizen?
 
Barbbtx said:
What if that same citizen who obeys the laws, pays his taxes, gives to charities etc, goes out of his way to bad mouth the very country that made those things possible? If he is burning the Flag on his day off from being a good citizen, is he really a good citizen?
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Thats the question I am asking, is he?
 
Very, very good question.

Someone once said "patriotism is supporting your country always, and your government when it deserves it".

I love my home country of south africa, my half county of Britain, and my adopted country of Canada, but it does not always mean that i support the laws of the land, agree with my government nor support those government actions that are sometimes taken...

I think it is always important to note, that anything created my humans is imperfect... Especially nations, i am a proud South African... But i also note, the Wrongs of the past, the harm that fellow citizen did to fellow citizen, and what the apartheid government was guilty of, I do not omit these, i do not deny these... But the fact that we overcame them, the fact that we grew as a nation despite our hardships makes me proud.... But i can also understand those who are not proud because of these...

It is my belief that no, you do not have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen, you treat your follow man with respect, you fulfill the obligations that YOU chose to subscribe to... And you do your best to fulfill the laws of the land (unless the laws are unjust, which is sometimes in the eye of the beholder, i mean a person in vancouver can feel that Marijuana laws are unjust, and he should protest, and a person on syria feels that unwarranted imprisonment is unjust and should be protested).

All in all, be good to your fellow man, don't murder or steal... And you will have done the best you can to be a good citizen.
 
megaprogman said:
A few questions.
1. What if a person is basically neutral towards their nation or perhaps all nations? (neutral instead of thinking its great or it sucks)
2. What is it about not feeling proud of your nation or thinking it sucks that prevents one from being a good citizen?
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In my opinion, you would be neutral, not good or bad.:mrgreen:
 
Michelle Obama is proud of her country for the first time in her adult. I have been proud of my country my entire life.
 
No.. Nationalism and Patriotism 2 very different things.
The "whole my country right or wrong" mentality is stupid and idiotic.
Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism. I will live by that till my dying day.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
No.. Nationalism and Patriotism 2 very different things.
The "whole my country right or wrong" mentality is stupid and idiotic.
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So is the "my country is always wrong" refrain.
Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism. I will live by that till my dying day.
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Unless the dissent comes from the TEA party, then it's just violent/racist rhetoric we need to be concerned about. ;)
 
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I think having a certain amount of pride in your country or love for it is a part of good citizenship. Now that doesn't mean you have to be a blind cheerleader for everything your nation does. You can be disappointed or even disgusted by your country's actions and I think a truly good citizen would protest or otherwise try to change those objectionable actions. But there should still be some fundemental love or pride in your nation - in it's ideals, what it stands for, what it strives to be even if it often falls short.
 
No, you don't need to have pride to be a good citizen. Being a good citizen, from my perspective, means contributing to society and helping it to become better than it is. There are many people with pride in their country who are horrible citizens according to this definition.
 
Barbbtx said:
You don't have to be proud of the country in every circumstance to be a good citizen. However if you think America sucks in general and want to fundamentally transform it, you can't be a good citizen here. Be one elsewhere please.
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If you think America sucks and are actively working to make it better(whatever "better" is for you), that is almost exactly my definition of a good citizen. To give you an example you might appreciate, I think the Tea Party is misguided and foolish, however, I think the fact they are working so hard to make the country better as they see it makes them good citizens, even though I disagree with their vision of "better".

I don't think thoughts make you a good citizen, I think it is what you do, the actions you take. So by that, pride in country is entirely irrelevant to how I would define "good citizen".
 
Redress said:
If you think America sucks and are actively working to make it better(whatever "better" is for you), that is almost exactly my definition of a good citizen. To give you an example you might appreciate, I think the Tea Party is misguided and foolish, however, I think the fact they are working so hard to make the country better as they see it makes them good citizens, even though I disagree with their vision of "better".

I don't think thoughts make you a good citizen, I think it is what you do, the actions you take. So by that, pride in country is entirely irrelevant to how I would define "good citizen".
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Your actions typically follow your thoughts though.
 
Redress said:
If you think America sucks and are actively working to make it better(whatever "better" is for you), that is almost exactly my definition of a good citizen. To give you an example you might appreciate, I think the Tea Party is misguided and foolish, however, I think the fact they are working so hard to make the country better as they see it makes them good citizens, even though I disagree with their vision of "better".

I don't think thoughts make you a good citizen, I think it is what you do, the actions you take. So by that, pride in country is entirely irrelevant to how I would define "good citizen".
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Your actions typically follow your thoughts though.
 
X Factor said:
Your actions typically follow your thoughts though.
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Typically true, but we cannot see another person's thoughts, and as such we have to judge them on their actions. Since "good citizen" is a value judgment, I don't worry about what the person is thinking, just what they are doing. To continue my example from earlier, there are, I am sure, those within the Tea Party who are there because they hate that a black man got uppity and ended up in the White House. Now, those people are the exception, and I repeat again that I do not think the Tea Party is racist in any way, but any group has racists, and to deny that such people exist in the Tea Party is silly(it is equally silly to deny that such people exist in the democratic, republican and libertarian parties). Now, these peoples' thoughts are vile to my mind, but their actions, the part I can see, are not, and are working towards their vision of a better America.

That is not a great example, but it's the best I can come up with off the top of my head.
 
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