View Poll Results: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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  • yes

    14 22.95%
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    42 68.85%
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Thread: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  1. #71
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Personally, I think such pride of the type that I described above results from a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. Like I said before, I love my country and I am patriotic. But I don't think being proud of one's country is really all that logical; I hope u can understand where I'm coming from.
    I agree with this to a certain extent. Benedict Anderson, a political theorist, defined nations as "imagined communities" because most members of nations have not met one another, so their sense of unity is based on an image they form of their fellow nation members as opposed to one they would form from face-to-face interaction.

    National pride reminds of this - most of us haven't had a substantial role in creating our nations and none of us know the people whom we take pride in being a nation with. National pride is all based on an idea that may or may not exist - the idea that "being American" means something more than the idea you have of it in your head.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-17-11 at 12:17 AM.

  2. #72
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I agree with this to a certain extent. Benedict Anderson, a political theorist, defined nations as "imagined communities" because most members of nations have not met one another, so their sense of unity is based on an image they form of their fellow nation members as opposed to one they would form from face-to-face interaction.

    National pride reminds of this - most of us haven't had a substantial role in creating our nations and none of us know the people whom we take pride in being a nation with. National pride is all based on an idea that may or may not exist - the idea that "being American" means something more than the idea you have of it in your head.
    You put it better than I could have done. In many ways, the shared identity that forms a nation or a country is to a large extent a social construct.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #73
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Pay your taxes, obey the law, vote, become a part of your community and actively work to make the lives of those around you better. I think that's the epitome of what it means to be a good citizen.
    How can you do all that without having some pride ?

  4. #74
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    How can you do all that without having some pride ?
    Well, personally, those things have little to do with national pride and more to do with personal pride and self-betterment.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #75
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, personally, those things have little to do with national pride and more to do with personal pride and self-betterment.
    maybe...I have pride in my country, admittedly not as much as I had 10 yrs ago but I still do...I would be a very unhappy old fart if I couldnt feel pride for where i was born and raised....I feel for anyone that doesnt have pride in their country

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    maybe...I have pride in my country, admittedly not as much as I had 10 yrs ago but I still do...I would be a very unhappy old fart if I couldnt feel pride for where i was born and raised....I feel for anyone that doesnt have pride in their country
    Like I said in an above post, I think loving one's country and being proud of one's country are two different concepts. I love my country. I think being proud of it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Yeah, goodness knows, when I think of a good citizen, my mind goes right to drug addicted pimps.


    Don't be mad Kali, I just had to give you a little **** for that.
    Stop Hating!
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  8. #78
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Stop Hating!
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Well, one's debt to society consists of not being a burden. Paying taxes is only required for those taxes that fund Constitutional items. Finding creative ways to avoid paying the rest is perfectly moral.

    If one isn't proud of the country they're living in, then why the hell didn't Michelle Obama move to whatever country it was that would make her happy?

    To put the blunt point on the thrust of this particular thread.

  10. #80
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    I'm not proud of my country. In fact, I find the whole idea of patriotism to be outdated...and really not all that different from odious concepts like "white pride." Why would you be proud of something you have no control over? I mean, it was only an accident of birth that you were born where you were, instead of in the backwaters of Uganda. If you're an immigrant to your country, I can understand being proud of that accomplishment, but I still don't understand "pride in one's country."

    What is there to be proud of? Some imperfect men (who aren't me) who happened to exist within the arbitrarily-defined borders of my "country" did some stuff a long time ago that led to the foundation of this country, over which I am nominally a part? I guess I could understand that THEY would have pride in their own accomplishments...but why would *I* be proud of it? I wasn't the one who did it.

    I think that patriotism - like white nationalism - tends to be used to justify all sorts of harmful behavior against anyone who isn't part of the "in-group." Sometimes it's pretty blatant xenophobia ("I don't want to press 1 for English") and sometimes it's more subtle ("they hate us for our freedom"), but the end result is typically the same: Stupid actions that harm others for no discernible reason.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-17-11 at 08:13 AM.
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