View Poll Results: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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  • yes

    14 22.95%
  • no

    42 68.85%
  • other

    4 6.56%
  • not voting (rootabega)

    1 1.64%
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Thread: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Kind of silly really. What does being a good citizen have to do with being proud of anything? A humble man can be as good a citizen as any patriotic loud mouth braggart.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    But it does accurately describe mine. Haven't you ever been proud of someone else, a family member or friend maybe, for something they accomplished?
    Not really, no, unless I played a role in helping them accomplish what they did. I think my parents have often been proud of my personal accomplishments because they played a role in shaping my upbringing and helping me achieve what I have achieved.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #63
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Kind of silly really. What does being a good citizen have to do with being proud of anything? A humble man can be as good a citizen as any patriotic loud mouth braggart.
    I agree; however are humility and pride necessarily mutually exclusive?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #64
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Kind of silly really. What does being a good citizen have to do with being proud of anything? A humble man can be as good a citizen as any patriotic loud mouth braggart.
    Pride is not necessarily the antithesis to humble, and it also doesn't mean "loud mouth braggart" either. In fact, it's usually the "braggarts" who are, underneath all the bravado, insecure.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree; however are humility and pride necessarily mutually exclusive?
    Of course not.

    I am part of the latter by the way. I am a patriotic loud mouth braggart. Of course this in no way means people far more humble than I are any less good citizens.

    Again to think "pride" is somehow needed to be a good citizen is just silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  6. #66
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Pride is not necessarily the antithesis to humble, and it also doesn't mean "loud mouth braggart" either. In fact, it's usually the "braggarts" who are, underneath all the bravado, insecure.
    Or they are just loud moth braggarts like myself. And yes humble is the polar opposite of prideful. You don't need to be proud of any nation to be a good citizen.

    Again, silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  7. #67
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackdog View Post
    Of course not.

    I am part of the latter by the way. I am a patriotic loud mouth braggart. Of course this in no way means people far more humble than I are any less good citizens.

    Again to think "pride" is somehow needed to be a good citizen is just silly.
    Pay your taxes, obey the law, vote, become a part of your community and actively work to make the lives of those around you better. I think that's the epitome of what it means to be a good citizen.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-16-11 at 11:59 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  8. #68
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Ah well, I can't dictate your feelings any more than you can dictate mine, silly as they may seem to you.
    I'll put it this way: I'm very patriotic, I love my country. But I think the concept of national pride is silly because honestly I, personally, have played an extremely insignificant role in shaping the country that America is today, and what makes it a great country. In my opinion, it's pretty much the same situation as being proud of one's race. Asian pride? Black pride? Just what is there to be proud of? I'm Asian. Why should I be proud of that fact? It's a result of happenstance. Me being born with yellow skin was pretty much the luck of the draw. I had nothing to do with the Chinese invention of paper, or gunpowder, of whatever other achievements Asians as a whole have accomplished. Should an individual black person be proud of the fact that black people, as a whole, produce some ridiculous basketball players? I don't think so.

    Personally, I think such pride of the type that I described above results from a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. Like I said before, I love my country and I am patriotic. But I don't think being proud of one's country is really all that logical; I hope u can understand where I'm coming from.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-16-11 at 11:59 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #69
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I'll put it this way: I'm very patriotic, I love my country. But I think the concept of national pride is silly because honestly I, personally, have played an extremely insignificant role in shaping the country that America is today, and what makes it a great country. In my opinion, it's pretty much the same situation as being proud of one's race. Asian pride? Black pride? Just what is there to be proud of? I'm Asian. Why should I be proud of that fact? It's a result of happenstance. I had nothing to do with the Chinese invention of paper, or gunpowder, of whatever other achievements Asians as a whole have accomplished. Should an individual black person be proud of the fact that black people, as a whole, produce some ridiculous basketball players? I don't think so.

    Personally, I think such pride of the type that I described above results from a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. Like I said before, I love my country and I am patriotic. But I don't think being proud of one's country is really all that logical; I hope u can understand where I'm coming from.
    Sure, what's not to understand? You think I have a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. How could I possibly take that personally or misunderstand that?




    Ok, I'm totally messing with you. This is just another thing we're going to have to agree to disagree on before you go on to tell me that feeling proud for something or someone else is a sign of mental disease or something.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  10. #70
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Sure, what's not to understand? You think I have a distorted and inflated sense of group identity. How could I possibly take that personally or misunderstand that?




    Ok, I'm totally messing with you. This is just another thing we're going to have to agree to disagree on before you go on to tell me that feeling proud for something or someone else is a sign of mental disease or something.
    You know I'll always respect your opinion.

    But I just want to dig into this issue a bit further because I think it's a healthy discussion to have. I think most of us can agree that racial pride is a concept that doesn't make a whole lot of sense (other posters, feel free to disagree with me on this one). My question is, if that doesn't make sense, how is national pride any different?
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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