View Poll Results: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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  • yes

    14 22.95%
  • no

    42 68.85%
  • other

    4 6.56%
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    1 1.64%
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Thread: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  1. #131
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I'm pretty sure there's a socialist party for socialists...
    The only person in Congress who is both a socialist and has any balls to be of any significance is Bernie Sanders.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #132
    global liberation

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    One should be proud of the accomplishments of their anceastors and their own (however minor or unrecognized) contributions to the society that got them this far. In the past couple hundred years or even the last 50, we've come a long way baby. Failure to be able to take pride in one's nation is the result of:

    1. Your country sucks (this pretty much only applies to dictatorships).
    or
    2. You have not traveled and lack perspective.

    Being proud of your country is not exclusive of anything else. Have some respect, your life is not so bad.


    Let's keep in mind, nationalism is thinking that everything about your country is the best and others are morons; patriotism is thinking that your country's ideals have been and will be pursued.

  3. #133
    Professor

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    I think you have a warped view of America if you think socialism should play a major part.
    Socialism takes away personal responsibilty.
    Personal responsibility is what makes it possible for us to pursue happiness.
    Socialism comes with a heavy price tag. I'm not willing to give up my God given rights for "free" stuff.
    Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer freedom.
    You mean "free" stuff like roads, airports, security (police & military), safety (EMTs, firefighters), etc?

    Would you prefer the freedom to craft all of that infrastructure yourself? Do you think a child born in Somalia will do as well as a child born here simply because that child in Somalia has "freedom" and a sense of "personal responsibility"? Or do you think a child born in America has an advantage because of a civilized society full of "free" stuff?

  4. #134
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    You mean "free" stuff like roads, airports, security (police & military), safety (EMTs, firefighters), etc?
    Everything there would be better and cheaper if private, except military (national defense). Competition FTW.

  5. #135
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Everything there would be better and cheaper if private, except military (national defense). Competition FTW.
    There are some public goods that should remain public goods, especially anything that is a natural monopoly.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  6. #136
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    One should be proud of the accomplishments of their anceastors and their own (however minor or unrecognized) contributions to the society that got them this far.
    I can understand being proud of one's own contributions. But why be proud of the accomplishments of previous generations?

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm
    In the past couple hundred years or even the last 50, we've come a long way baby. Failure to be able to take pride in one's nation is the result of:

    1. Your country sucks (this pretty much only applies to dictatorships).
    or
    2. You have not traveled and lack perspective.

    Being proud of your country is not exclusive of anything else. Have some respect, your life is not so bad.
    But recognizing that your country has some positive characteristics is not the same as being "proud" of it. I mean, I can see some good things in France, Norway, Japan, Brazil, China, and India. But I don't have any particular "pride" in them because I didn't do a damn thing to make them the way they are. For that matter, I didn't do anything to make the United States the way it is either, aside from my own contributions to the labor force and my vote in two presidential elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm
    Let's keep in mind, nationalism is thinking that everything about your country is the best and others are morons; patriotism is thinking that your country's ideals have been and will be pursued.
    I think that patriotism inevitably leads to nationalism, even if it's of a more subtle form than overtly thinking that everyone else is a moron. For example, it manifests itself in our foreign policy all the time, when Americans of both political parties view themselves as magnanimously spreading our perfect ideals to the rest of the uncivilized world. And anyone who opposes those values (or just the fact that we're imposing those values) must be evil.
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