View Poll Results: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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  • yes

    14 22.95%
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    42 68.85%
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    4 6.56%
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Thread: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  1. #111
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    How many times have we seen people on this forum blithely dismiss civilian casualties of American military action as "collateral damage"? Or mouth some platitude like "Yes, people die in war" to justify it? Yet when other cultures do the same thing to justify terrorism, you're all too eager to view them as monsters.
    How many times does the Mayor have to point out that introducing irrelevancies doesn't alter the equation of the argument in your favor?

    The Mayor has not condoned terrorism, the Mayor has condemned it. Your pursuit of non sequiturs is a waste of time and bandwidth.

  2. #112
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    No, morons think all subjective measures of merit are equal, and that there's no objective standard of measure to say one nation is superior to others.
    I think there are many objective measurements. But none of them is singularly the best at identifying a nation's overall superiority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum
    No rational measure of values can place Sudan above the United States.
    Cool. And when you find someone who is arguing that point with you, you'll be ready for them.
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  3. #113
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    How many times does the Mayor have to point out that introducing irrelevancies doesn't alter the equation of the argument in your favor?

    The Mayor has not condoned terrorism, the Mayor has condemned it. Your pursuit of non sequiturs is a waste of time and bandwidth.
    Then what the hell are you even arguing with me about? My statement was specifically directed at those who use patriotism to justify American atrocities while also using it to demonize people in other cultures who do similar things. Let's not pretend that there isn't a substantial cohort of Americans who view the foreign policy goals of the US as inherently good, view those who oppose those goals as inherently evil, and are perfectly willing to excuse civilian casualties of American military action as "collateral damage" even though they would NEVER excuse civilian casualties of countries/groups they disliked.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-17-11 at 07:39 PM.
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  4. #114
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I think there are many objective measurements. But none of them is singularly the best at identifying a nation's overall superiority.
    The phrase you're now chasing is "moving the goal posts".

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    The phrase you're now chasing is "moving the goal posts".
    No, I made that quite clear in post #102. You just chose to ignore everything but the first sentence of the post. I'm done responding to you, because you aren't being intellectually honest and aren't really even interested in discussing the subject at hand.
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  6. #116
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Well, one's debt to society consists of not being a burden. Paying taxes is only required for those taxes that fund Constitutional items. Finding creative ways to avoid paying the rest is perfectly moral.

    If one isn't proud of the country they're living in, then why the hell didn't Michelle Obama move to whatever country it was that would make her happy?

    To put the blunt point on the thrust of this particular thread.
    I think she thought she could keep working at it until she got in a position to do something about it. How 'bout you? What you doin' bout it, besides flappin' yo jaws?
    Last edited by DaveFagan; 04-17-11 at 08:12 PM. Reason: spellling

  7. #117
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    A good citizen must be always proud on his country. Period.
    Rom 6:23:For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

  8. #118
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfons View Post
    A good citizen must be always proud on his country. Period.
    So a female cannot be a good citizen?

  9. #119
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Citizenship is a legal status and doesn't address the thrust of the question. The question is whether one is a good citizen. Good, of course, is fully a subjective term, so it depends on your point of view.
    Oh. I'm sorry I didn't pay attention.

    I don't like this 'subjective' stuff, too ambiguous.

    1. Legal compliance
    Objectively that is probably the most astute measure of a good citizen unless the laws are unfair, injust, or oppressive. A large portion of Americans would qualify as good citizens yet still engage in drug use. Dilemma there for example.

    2. Be a moral person (don't seek to take advantage of people, no stealing, no killing, etc)
    Morality, though people would prefer not to view it in this way, is largely defined in our society by adherence to the law. There is no other, more solid measure of what we define as moral than that authority. That society can agree on, anyways.

    3. Be an active member of something that betters the community (like a church or charity)
    Bettering the community is right and good and well.
    But not mandatory, one can be a good hermit artist and seek betterment within themselves and still be good. No... come to think of it that doesnt benefit society unless art is contributed.

    4. Civic obligations such as paying taxes, jury duty, the draft, etc
    Also falling into the moral/legal issue.
    5. Holding a job
    Being a functional economic unit is also commendable. Though not always possible within some people's means.

    6. (other things, the rest are just examples)
    The question is, should pride in one's country be on this sort of list?
    Often, the considerations of what makes a good citizen and the considerations of the state diverge. Can it be good to burn a flag? Yes, if you are screaming an injustice in mourning of it.

    And now we descend into ambiguity and subjectivity.

  10. #120
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    And now we descend into ambiguity and subjectivity.
    Bringing subjectivity and ambiguity into the discussion was intentional. I want to know how people feel about the subject and unless I explicitly define it for them, it has to be there to make room for people's views to be expressed.

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