View Poll Results: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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Thread: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  1. #101
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Remember what "my country right or wrong" mentality leads to...
    Its pure ignorant to cheer everything your country does on..

  2. #102
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    What nonsense.

    If you believe another nation is superior to the United States, explain why you haven't relocated.
    First of all, it's meaningless to say that one nation is "superior" to another, because there are literally hundreds of different ways to measure a nation's standing in the world. No nation is the best at all of them.

    As to why I haven't relocated: Because my friends and family are here, because I'm accustomed to American culture, because I like my job and I like DC, and because the switching costs are too high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum
    That the United States is superior to "other countries" cannot be denied. Sudan isn't the equal to the US. Nor is Saudi Arabia, Britain, Uganda, France, Zimbabwe, Germany, Brazil, Spain, Japan, Canada, China, Italy, Cambodia, or Russia.
    Many of those countries are superior to the US in certain variables, and the US is superior in other variables. For example, the US is one of the best countries in the world in terms of GDP per capita, macroeconomic stability and dynamism, multicultural tolerance, and civil liberties. But the US is also shockingly behind the curve in terms of health care, poverty, wealth disparity, and incarceration rates.

    Furthermore, I don't see how this is supposed to give me a warm and fuzzy feeling of patriotism anyway. Suppose that what you said is true, and the US was somehow objectively the "most superior" nation. Why should *I* feel proud of that? I didn't write the Constitution, or elect the subsequent governments that caused the US to evolve in the way it has. I've only voted in two presidential elections and three congressional elections, and I've only worked for a few years, so my personal contribution to the US has been minimal. So why should I feel proud of the United States any more than someone who happened to have been born in Papua New Guinea would?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-17-11 at 07:01 PM.
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  3. #103
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    I think that comment went a little far to say the least.
    The whole notion of "terrorism" is just an offshoot of the harmful nationalism/patriotism I'm talking about. That label is only applied to groups that the US doesn't like. If a group is doing the West's bidding through violent means - say, the Libyan rebels - they're lauded as freedom fighters rather than terrorists. Is it really that surprising when other cultures do the same for violent groups that they perceive as serving THEIR goals? I think that's why Hamas is often viewed favorably among Arabs, or why the LTTE was viewed favorably among Tamils. It's not because they're brainwashed or uneducated, it's because they fall victim to the same sort of blind patriotism that many Americans do. They assume that whatever their culture wants is inherently good, and that those who oppose it are evil.

    Do you think that people living in rural Pakistan or Yemen give a damn whether US drones "intend" to kill civilians? They see Americans as a violent military force that is killing civilians to achieve political goals that are totally alien to them. Is that really so different from how Americans view groups like Hamas or Hezbollah?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-17-11 at 07:14 PM.
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  4. #104
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    I was complaining when I was young and my grandfather told me I had no right to complain because I was getting a free ride. My uncle, and others, died so I could live in the U.S. He said, that to be a good citizen you paid your taxes, voted, and did your time in the military when called.

    I guess the problem now is that liberals think voting more than once in an election makes up for not paying taxes or doing their time in the military.

  5. #105
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickt View Post
    I was complaining when I was young and my grandfather told me I had no right to complain because I was getting a free ride. My uncle, and others, died so I could live in the U.S. He said, that to be a good citizen you paid your taxes, voted, and did your time in the military when called.

    I guess the problem now is that liberals think voting more than once in an election makes up for not paying taxes or doing their time in the military.
    Except for the fact that most liberals pay their taxes and many join the military including my father, all of my uncles, one of my cousins and both of my grandfathers. Try harder.

  6. #106
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    First of all, it's meaningless to say that one nation is "superior" to another, because there are literally hundreds of different ways to measure a nation's standing in the world. No nation is the best at all of them.
    Then you explain how Sudan and Libya are "superior" to the United States, and the rest of us will laugh at you.

  7. #107
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Then you explain how Sudan and Libya are "superior" to the United States, and the rest of us will laugh at you.
    OK, obviously you're more set on being a moron than on actually discussing the subject at hand. That's cool, to each his own. But I'm gonna stick to the topic. I already gave you several things that the US does quite well and several things that the US does not-so-well. Now, back to patriotism/nationalism.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 04-17-11 at 07:17 PM.
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  8. #108
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The whole notion of "terrorism" is just an offshoot of the harmful nationalism/patriotism I'm talking about.
    Right.

    The dead Americans don't count for anything in your estimation.

  9. #109
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Right.

    The dead Americans don't count for anything in your estimation.
    How many times have we seen people on this forum blithely dismiss civilian casualties of American military action as "collateral damage"? Or mouth some platitude like "Yes, people die in war" to justify it? Yet when other cultures do the same thing to justify terrorism, you're all too eager to view them as monsters.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    OK, obviously you're more set on being a moron than on actually discussing the subject at hand. That's cool, to each his own. But I'm gonna stick to the topic.
    No, morons think all subjective measures of merit are equal, and that there's no objective standard of measure to say one nation is superior to others.

    No rational measure of values can place Sudan above the United States.

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