View Poll Results: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

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Thread: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post

    For example, it is often said/implied that to attempt to understand, or God forbid empathize, with members of anti-American terrorist organizations is "unpatriotic". With that label, the conversation is meant to end. It's meant to say, "By understanding and empathizing with those who killed Americans, you are a traitor of this country". It's an idea that is based in the juvenile assumption that one cannot understand and empathize with two different groups of people - that our understanding and empathy must be reserved only for "us" and never wasted upon "them". It's a dangerous assumption that has the capacity to turn an entire country into xenophobic people who are 1) unwilling to examine their nation's faults 2) unable to connect to people outside their own borders.
    This is awesome, patriotism makes you a racist and it's better to empathize with anti-American terrorist organizations, cause, you know, they're the people that really do good things and I'm sure they show no racism, bigotry or "pride" in what they accomplish, granted that's usually scored in the terms of bodies.
    Last edited by X Factor; 04-17-11 at 05:41 PM.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    This is awesome, patriotism makes you a racist and it's better to empathize with anti-American terrorist organizations, cause, you know, they're the people that really do good things and I'm sure they show no racism or "pride" in what they accomplish, granted that's usually scored in the terms of bodies,
    You just proved my point impeccably and the best part is that you don't even know how unfortunate it is. Like I said:

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    It inspires people to make arbitrary requirements of patriotism and to blindly censor their own thoughts and speech because they reject certain ideas that have been branded "unpatriotic". We've seen stuff like this on this board...It's an idea that is based in the juvenile assumption that one cannot understand and empathize with two different groups of people - that our understanding and empathy must be reserved only for "us" and never wasted upon "them".
    I never said it was better - I said that it was possible to do both. I hope to God that you don't work in the government.

  3. #93
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    You just proved my point impeccably and the best part is that you don't even know how unfortunate it is. Like I said:



    I never said it was better - I said that it was possible to do both. I hope to God that you don't work in the government.
    Given your diatribe against American patriotism, I just find it incredibly ironic that you're ok with the the same traits you bash us for exhibited in people who actually kill people just for not being like them.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Patriotism is a slightly more subtle form of nationalism, but they're basically the same. They both encourage people to think in terms of us versus them. With patriotism, people think that it's not harmful because they're just expressing how wonderful their OWN country is...which is why I drew the "white pride" analogy. If people are proud of their own country, it's not such a big leap to think that they are better than other countries and that others are therefore inferior. That seems to be the rationale, however much it's cloaked in nice language, of the "American exceptionalism" crowd. Or let's not forget the fact that any politician who suggests we copy the successful policies of another country would be shouted down as an America-hater, and reprimanded by the opposition for thinking that America is anything other than #1 in (fill in the blank policy).

    I see no reason to be any more proud of the accomplishments of John Adams than I am of the accomplishments of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. They were both imperfect men who did some good things. Yet I'm supposed to feel more pride in John Adams because he lived a few hundred miles from me, instead of a few thousand?
    What nonsense.

    If you believe another nation is superior to the United States, explain why you haven't relocated.

    That the United States is superior to "other countries" cannot be denied. Sudan isn't the equal to the US. Nor is Saudi Arabia, Britain, Uganda, France, Zimbabwe, Germany, Brazil, Spain, Japan, Canada, China, Italy, Cambodia, or Russia.

    That the US has failings cannot be denied. Those failings are inextricably linked with our nation's failure to comply with what makes this nation great, the belief that a man is his own master and as such bears responsibility for the choices he makes. Socialism destroys that connection, and the implementation of socialism requires the destruction of the Constitution that enables men to be the captains of their own destiny.

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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Given your diatribe against American patriotism, I just find it incredibly ironic that you're ok with the the same traits you bash us for exhibited in people who actually kill people just for not being like them.
    Where did I say that I was okay with the type of patriotism that I'm criticizing? Show so that I can tell you why you were wrong.

    Let me give you a clue: You're arguing against what you WANT me to have said not what I ACTUALLY said. I can only guess that your reason for doing this is that you have not yet reached the point in adulthood where citizens realize that it is possible to understand and empathize with the enemy while at the same time understanding and empathizing with their fellow citizens. When you move beyond looking at people in terms of nationality and their status as an ally or enemy of the U.S. and start to look at people first as human beings, then you will be able to read my comment for WHAT IT IS and not for WHAT YOU WANT IT TO BE.

    Until then, please stay out of the government - many them have to empathize with and understand "them" in order to defend the United States. I can only imagine how unsafe we would be if you were involved in foreign policy decisions.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-17-11 at 06:29 PM.

  6. #96
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    I actually like nationalism. I understand its connection to some evils, but I think it has benefited us greatly in identity and many others as well.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #97
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    This is awesome, patriotism makes you a racist and it's better to empathize with anti-American terrorist organizations, cause, you know, they're the people that really do good things and I'm sure they show no racism, bigotry or "pride" in what they accomplish, granted that's usually scored in the terms of bodies.
    Sounds to me like you don't know what empathize means. Hint: It's not the same as sympathize.
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Given your diatribe against American patriotism, I just find it incredibly ironic that you're ok with the the same traits you bash us for exhibited in people who actually kill people just for not being like them.
    The United States actually kills people for not being like them...and generally a lot more than any terrorist group does. And when they do, their actions are often cheered on by many members of this forum. Let's not pretend that your **** doesn't stink just because you happened to be born in this country.
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  9. #99
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    It's certainly possible to be a good citizen and be thoroughly ashamed or disgusted with your country. Heroically standing up to injustice certainly qualifies as good citizenship. Do you think that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was not ashamed of his nation's systematic repression of an entire race of people? He stood up and fought to make his country better. In fact, you could argue that being proud or satisfied by one's country breeds complacency, and only the truly malcontent ever make things better.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #100
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    Re: Do you have to be proud of your country to be a good citizen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The United States actually kills people for not being like them...and generally a lot more than any terrorist group does. And when they do, their actions are often cheered on by many members of this forum. Let's not pretend that your **** doesn't stink just because you happened to be born in this country.
    I think that comment went a little far to say the least.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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