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Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social programs?

Do you agree with Obama?


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Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

No, lack of ambition is caused by social welfare. It is lack of ambition that perpetuates poverty.

Exactly. Why should people work to better their lives when the government can just give them stuff. No muss, no fuss.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

No, lack of ambition is caused by social welfare. It is lack of ambition that perpetuates poverty.

A culture of poverty perpetuates lack of ambition. Poverty existed before social welfare. A country that wants to end poverty within its borders must create social programs that break up the patterns in cultures of poverty. Certain social programs maintain lack of ambition but they certainly do not cause it.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Actually, we've already been over this.

He says "we", meaning current Americans/the current United States, would not be great without these programs. He doesn't even mention past Americans.

What, specifically, about not introducing social programs would have caused Americas greatness to suddenly disappear?
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I agree, poverty was perpetuated long before social welfare - it's not the problem. I think I would switch hatred and intolerance with indifference and intolerance. But yeah, an education system that adequately addresses the unique learning barriers that poor students bring with them would be the best way to tackle poverty.

Before the industrial age, poverty was perpetuated by lack of education, and lack of personal agency. Education is free to poor Americans. You are comapring apples and oranges.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

A culture of poverty perpetuates lack of ambition. Poverty existed before social welfare. A country that wants to end poverty within its borders must create social programs that break up the patterns in cultures of poverty. Certain social programs maintain lack of ambition but they certainly do not cause it.

You obviously have no first hand knowledge of poverty. (or at least America's version of poverty). I grew up with people that adamantly refuse to work, becuase the government feeds them. This is a fact of human nature...you can twist it anyway you like, but handouts keep hands out-stretched.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

I believe lack of motivation to get out there and fend for yourself is a major reason why poverty is still a problem in this country.

You need to start understanding that this is largely a mythos.

Market fundamentalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The market cannot provide for everyone, the free market is not perfect. We need regulation so the free market stays one, and some measured welfare for those for whom the market cannot at the moment provide for.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

What, specifically, about not introducing social programs would have caused Americas greatness to suddenly disappear?

The answer is in the box below...

 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

What, specifically, about not introducing social programs would have caused Americas greatness to suddenly disappear?

I'm not making an argument for or against social programs, but about logic. Greatness is relative. You could be great one day and not-great the next if the rest of the world passes you by.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Before the industrial age, poverty was perpetuated by lack of education, and lack of personal agency. Education is free to poor Americans. You are comapring apples and oranges.

Our education system in poor communities is a joke. Most education systems in those areas do not adequately address the specific educational needs that poor kids bring with them. The ones that do address those needs tend to educate poor kids better, see Massachusetts revision of its education system. The ones that don't, most of the country, produce the same crap.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Exactly. Why should people work to better their lives when the government can just give them stuff. No muss, no fuss.

it doesn't happen that way. able bodied men and (childless) women are expected to take care of themselves. are the systems abused? yes. so let's take care of that, instead of pretending EVERYONE can earn enough to take care of themselves.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

You obviously have no first hand knowledge of poverty. (or at least America's version of poverty). I grew up with people that adamantly refuse to work, becuase the government feeds them. This is a fact of human nature...you can twist it anyway you like, but handouts keep hands out-stretched.

I do have a firsthand knowledge of poverty. I didn't grow up in it, but I was certainly around it because of my parents' jobs. I know exactly the kind of people you're talking about - the problem is, it's not difficult for me to understand that poverty would still exist without social welfare - you can't see beyond that.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

No, lack of ambition is caused by social welfare. It is lack of ambition that perpetuates poverty.

unending poverty perpetuates lack of ambition.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

No other option? I agree to a certain extent that being able to help those in need does make us as a nation great. Unfortunately the fraud, red tape etc make it a wasteful corrupt system that makes people dependent.

None of the programs are working as intended. As a fall back in case of hard times. People have changed it into something it was never meant to be, a lifestyle.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Our education system in poor communities is a joke. Most education systems in those areas do not adequately address the specific educational needs that poor kids bring with them. The ones that do address those needs tend to educate poor kids better, see Massachusetts revision of its education system. The ones that don't, most of the country, produce the same crap.

Well, they educated me......and I don't live there anymore. I left school at 15...got a GED and the military paid for my degrees.....

How's that fit into your coffee shop socialist paradigm?
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

unending poverty perpetuates lack of ambition.

It is a little of both. Your answer as is Mac's are far to simplistic. No one reason is responsible.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Government handouts DO promote a culture of entitlement and disincentive to work, or to find work.

On the other hand, sometimes poverty is systemic and thus breeds contempt and hopelessness.

It's not a one-sided argument.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

unending poverty perpetuates lack of ambition.

No, it doesn't. The belief that there is no way out of poverty is what you are confusing. (i.e. lack of ambition)
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

You obviously have no first hand knowledge of poverty. (or at least America's version of poverty). I grew up with people that adamantly refuse to work, becuase the government feeds them. This is a fact of human nature...you can twist it anyway you like, but handouts keep hands out-stretched.

i have excruciating knowledge of poverty. i've worked since i was 15, and all 4 of my brothers and sisters are doing just fine. so keep your generalities to yourself.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

It is a little of both. Your answer as is Mac's are far to simplistic. No one reason is responsible.

You'd be surprised what a little hope does in the hood.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

i have excruciating knowledge of poverty. i've worked since i was 15, and all 4 of my brothers and sisters are doing just fine. so keep your generalities to yourself.

That wasn't directed at you, so keep your's to yourself.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

You'd be surprised what a little hope does in the hood.

^ If mac aint black, he's whack. XD
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

What, specifically, about not introducing social programs would have caused Americas greatness to suddenly disappear?

It is my opinion that any great nation should always have programs in place that help citizens who struggle, particularly in poverty. If we were a nation that let the "least" of our society stay as they are without any national effort, then we would not be great. Charities cannot handle all the work required to take such actions.
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

^ If mac aint black, he's whack. XD

Mac is.

........
 
Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

Well, they educated me......and I don't live there anymore. I left school at 15...got a GED and the military paid for my degrees.....

How's that fit into your coffee shop socialist paradigm?

How does this prove anything I've said wrong? You got out and that's supposed to prove the education system in poor areas is amazing?

It's also funny that you can never debate people without veering off topic into nonsensical accusations - "socialist paradigm"? I'm talking about making education better - focus.
 
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Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

How does this prove anything I've said wrong? You got out and that's supposed to prove the education system in poor areas is amazing?

Oh I certainly won't call them Amazing. You get what you pay for...they are sufficient, though, to get anyone out of the hood that wants to get out.
 
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