View Poll Results: Do you agree with Obama?

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  • Yes, I agree.

    39 32.77%
  • No, I disagree.

    80 67.23%
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Thread: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social programs?

  1. #151
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Then you are familiar with PG county. I volunteer in schools in Suitland and I can tell you that despite being in the middle of the richest, predominately black county, in the United states...poor kids still don't realize they can succeed and they can get out. How is that possible?
    Probably for similar reasons that a woman in an abusive relationship surrounded by other women in healthy relationships still doesn't realize that she too can have a healthy relationship.

  2. #152
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That wasn't directed at you, so keep your's to yourself.
    mine was not a generality.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


  3. #153
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    I and others have already said that welfare is a part of the problem. However, poverty existed before welfare and would after welfare - you give it too much credit.
    They existed under circumstances that no longer exist in America. The current reason is mainly welfare.

    Poverty perpetuates itself just like wealth perpetuates itself. Both create cultures that breed/perpetuate certain mindsets.
    I agree, but why do they? Why, why, why.....why make it attractive to be poor?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  4. #154
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I think you have to look at overall big picture problem solving for communites like what you described. You have to promote and teach personal and family accountability. You have to create employment opportunites...GOOD employment opportunities, not just minimum wage service jobs. People need to be able to see more at the end of the rainbow then a Mickey D's shirt with their name on it. Then promote positive education programs. Money is a part of the solution, but you can build new schools with all the best equipment...it will be trash in a few years. Its a big picture problem and it needs big picture solutions.
    I totally agree Vance. On a much larger scale, similar arguments are made for developing Third World countries. But it's much easier said than done.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #155
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Probably for similar reasons that a woman in an abusive relationship surrounded by other women in healthy relationships still doesn't realize that she too can have a healthy relationship.
    Because they have to be taught that they have worth..that they can do better. Handouts doesn't do that.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  6. #156
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    They existed under circumstances that no longer exist in America. The current reason is mainly welfare.
    I think it's a combination of a lot of factors and welfare helps. I think it's education, I thinks it's the type of jobs available to poor people, I think it's the unhealthy environment with fast food and liquor stores and currency exchanges, I think it's the look of the neighborhood (litter all over the place, etc.) - I think there are a lot of "main" problems.

    I agree, but why do they? Why, why, why.....why make it attractive to be poor?
    I don't think it should be attractive, which is why I think welfare problems should be replaced or amended.

  7. #157
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Nearly everyone in America could earn enough to maintain a lower-middle class status if they were taught how too.
    Talk about naive. Got any evidence to back that claim up? Or is it more opinion?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    That is not a factor of society but is inherenet in our species. Survival of the fittest comes to mind.
    This is a factor of society and has nothing at all to do with survival of the fittest. We left that behind when we started calling ourselves "civilized."

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I agree, but social welfare programs are the largest and most powerfull of the reasons.
    Again any evidence to back this up?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Society has changed...the reasons for poverty now are different than in the past. Lack of education and the understanding of self agency is a main cause of poverty in under developed nations, not to mention outright barriers to success against ethnic groups.
    Again any evidence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

  8. #158
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I am very familiar with PG county...I attend UMCP, and I am familiar with much more of the county than just college park. If PG is really the richest majority-black county in the US, then I'm scared to know what the hood actually looks like.
    Well, I grew up in harlem and bed-sty....mostly, that's a good place to start looking...
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  9. #159
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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I don't disagree with any of this. Do I think welfare plays SOME role in the perpetuation of poverty? Of course I do. My point was that if you eliminated welfare programs today, ten or twenty years from now we would still have poverty, and who knows if it would be better or worse. We live in a capitalistic society. Haves and have-nots are a known consequence of such a system.
    One of the joys of a capitalist society is that people can work their way out of poverty.

    I spend 6 days a week working with both types of people...the truly needy and the type I classify as crippled dependent pets. Last night was a prime example...young woman with a TBI at age 4 and now in pretty desperate condition as an adult. She was at the end of a rope (yes...literally-not figuratively), and the family didnt know what to do anymore. She qualifies for services and desperately needs them. Unfortunately the beds and support we need are filled by the 19 year old malingerers that refuse to get the help they are offered because its easier to spend 15-20 days flopping on peoples couches with the other 10-15 days spent in funded programs because they have learned how to say "well...Im going to kill myself" and know that they are going to get 3 hot meals and a comfy bed...some medication, and can spend the bulk of their day laying around watching TV and all they have to do is a loittle dance when they interview with the pyschiatrist and social worker.

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    Re: Do you agree with Obama that we wouldn't be a great country without social progra

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Because they have to be taught that they have worth..that they can do better. Handouts doesn't do that.
    I agree - I just don't think handouts are the main problem. I don't think there is a "main" problem. I think all the factors in American poverty have almost equal parts in perpetuating unproductive mentalities and habits.

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