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Thread: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I agree the fine was appropriate, not disagreeing with that. However I wonder if the result would have been same would have happened had he used a generic insult (rather than a slur), or if he hadn't been caught on camera.
    Probably not - but generic insults do not denote a sense of prejudice that I assume the NBA doesn't want to be associated with. Even if he didn't mean it to be offensive to gay people, the term still links homosexuality with stupidity or lameness and still implies homophobia or prejudice. Calling someone stupid or a moron doesn't denote either. It's less about political correctness (the difference between saying black/negro and African-American). It's more about prejudice and its negative implications.

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Probably not - but generic insults do not denote a sense of prejudice that I assume the NBA doesn't want to be associated with. Even if he didn't mean it to be offensive to gay people, the term still links homosexuality with stupidity or lameness and still implies homophobia or prejudice. Calling someone stupid or a moron doesn't denote either. It's less about political correctness (the difference between saying black/negro and African-American). It's more about prejudice and its negative implications.
    The thing is, every insult, when you get down to the true meaning of the word, is going to insult SOMEONE. Would saying the word "retard" denote some sort of prejudice towards the mentally handicapped (or whatever we're supposed to call them these days?) How about if he had called the referee a "bitch?" Does that mean Kobe holds some sort of prejudice towards female canines? What if he had said "pussy?" See what I'm getting at? Our society has allowed certain words in our vocabulary to accumulate too much meaning, and people attach waaay too much importance to them sometimes. That's my personal opinion.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-13-11 at 11:16 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Kobe is much more valuable to the NBA as a player, than as an ex-player. He knows it, and the League knows it. It's all about the bucks, buddy.
    Which is why Kobe should stop bitching about the fine, and be thankful he doesn't work at Exxon-Mobil, where his lame ass would be put out on the street in a New York minute for that.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    The thing is, every insult, when you get down to the true meaning of the word, is going to insult SOMEONE. Would saying the word "retard" denote some sort of prejudice towards the mentally handicapped (or whatever we're supposed to call them these days?) How about if he had called the referee a "bitch?" Does that mean Kobe holds some sort of prejudice towards female canines? What if he had said "pussy?" See what I'm getting at?
    Sure every insult will insult someone and many are based in prejudice. However, the difference between things like bitch, retard, pussy etc. and faggot, nigger (said by a white player), wetback, etc. is that even though the former can be or are based in prejudice (against women, mentally handicapped, whoever), they have become mainstream in such a way that their link to prejudice is much less sharp.

    Put another way - when someone says pussy or retard, there isn't a straight link to prejudice because both words have become an integral part of colloquial language to the point that although the prejudice is there, we think of them more as standard insults like stupid or lame. When someone says faggot, it's automatically homophobia/prejudice. It's that obvious, unavoidable link to prejudice that makes the difference. That's how I see it.

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Sure every insult will insult someone and many are based in prejudice. However, the difference between things like bitch, retard, pussy etc. and faggot, nigger (said by a white player), wetback, etc. is that even though the former can be or are based in prejudice (against women, mentally handicapped, whoever), they have become mainstream in such a way that their link to prejudice is much less sharp.

    Put another way - when someone says pussy or retard, there isn't a straight link to prejudice because both words have become an integral part of colloquial language to the point that although the prejudice is there, we think of them more as standard insults like stupid or lame. When someone says faggot, it's automatically homophobia/prejudice. It's that obvious, unavoidable link to prejudice that makes the difference. That's how I see it.
    I think that's where you and I disagree. It really depends on who is using it and how. I have some close friends who are really loose with their use of the word "faggot" and they don't mean anything harmful or negative by it. In fact I'd say the majority of the people who use the word in everyday speech don't mean it as a slight toward gays.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 04-13-11 at 11:28 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think that's where you and I disagree. It really depends on who is using it and how. I have some close friends who are really loose with their use of the word "faggot" and they don't mean anything harmful or negative by it.
    What do they use it in reference to?

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    What do they use it in reference to?
    Just when they're pissed off at a particular person, like when a roommate does something annoying, etc.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Just when they're pissed off at a particular person, like when a roommate does something annoying, etc.
    So they use it in reference to negative things and they mean it in a harmful way just like people who use any insult. I assume you meant earlier that they don't mean anything homophobic by it. If that's what you meant, then I know people like that too which is why I don't think Kobe meant anything homophobic by it. Nonetheless, in most of the U.S., the word is prejudice.

    Would you feel the same way if a white person called a black ref "nigger"?

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    So they use it in reference to negative things and they mean it in a harmful way just like people who use any insult. I assume you meant earlier that they don't mean anything homophobic by it. If that's what you meant, then I know people like that too which is why I don't think Kobe meant anything homophobic by it. Nonetheless, in most of the U.S., the word is prejudice.

    Would you feel the same way if a white person called a black ref "nigger"?
    I see what you're getting at, I agree with you. The people I've interacted with all my life use "faggot" pretty much the same way they used "asshole" "retard" or "bitch." The n-word is different, yes.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Kobe Bryant Fined $100,000 for gay slur

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Really. It's TNT's fault. *Shakin' head here*

    I'm not sure if he'd have been fined if it hadn't been caught on camera, but, nonetheless, I'm glad to see the NBA take a stand against particularly distasteful unsportsmanlike conduct. If he has endorsements, maybe he'll lose some of those if this gets legs.
    I am not implying in any way that TNT is to blame for this. The blame lands squarely on Kobe's shoulders. Simply put, if I am David Stern (commissioner of the NBA), I will most likely have a chat with TNT about when to put the camera on players. Seeing as TNT has a contract with the NBA, and the NBA has a reputation to maintain, that isn't too outlandish. Also, TNT probably has a lot of younger viewers watching basketball so it would probably be in their best interest to do the same... or so I would hope.
    Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

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