• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The Tea Party Is.....

What is the Tea Party to America?


  • Total voters
    69
There is an element of racism in AMERICA, so it follows that your assertion is blatently obvious; and ultimately meaningless.


Tim-

Perhaps, I too think it is fairly obvious, which makes me wonder why such effort to deny it. But because the birth population is so high in the Tea Party, one has to wonder what motivates that as it cannot be reason or real questions. So, asking the question is hardly out of bounds. Stating you know the answer might be.
 
Roughly 1 in every 17 white people are on welfare compared to 1 in every 4 for blacks and 1 in every 5 for hispanics.

Where did you get these statistics, because they aren't accurate.
 
Perhaps, I too think it is fairly obvious, which makes me wonder why such effort to deny it. But because the birth population is so high in the Tea Party, one has to wonder what motivates that as it cannot be reason or real questions. So, asking the question is hardly out of bounds. Stating you know the answer might be.

Unfortunately it is the loud mouths that make it to the 5 O'Clock news hour. I am a member of the Tea Party in that I support them, and the message. I've met countless TP goer's and I am yet to meet anyone that has even mentioned an ideological position that is to the detriment of any particular race. It make me laugh, and sad that there are people out there that REALLY do believe that the TP is a bunch of racist bigots looking to keep the black man down, or latino, or whatever. It simply isn't so..


Tim-
 
So why do you suppose that black people typically vote Democrat?

Far from a simple thing to answer.

First and foremost likely family ties. Most casual political observers gain their initial feeling towards politics from their parents. Many voting age black people of today either lived during the Civil Rights movement or are childrens of members of the Civil Rights movement. In the time following that many of these individuals gravitated to support for the Democratic Party and thus in part out of loyalty/grattitude on the part of those living during it and in part based on history and family for the children, they continue voting that way.

Secondly, the majority of largely black political organizations in the country are left leaning in nature. This means blacks attempting to get involved with politics and identifying closely with their race are more likely to be brought into it from a liberal view point. This also helps establish the image, rightly or wrongly, that the Democrats cares about "black issues" while the Republicans do not. For casual voters, which makes up the majority of any race, this appearance could be enough to sway someone significantly.

Thirdly, as I pointed out in another post, unfortunantly for the black community a higher percentage of their people tend to utilize various entitlement programs that are typically championed by the left and condemned by the right. As such, human nature leads one to generally look more positively on things that helps oneself. That's not to say such a thing is right or wrong. But in general, if you're recieving some kind of social service you're more apt to view it as a good and necessary thing than someone who is not.

Fourthly, again as I pointed out with the Tea Party, image means a lot for casual voters. The Democratic Party is simply portrayed, rightly or wrongly, as the party for black people. Its similar to how they're portrayed similarly as the party for homosexuals, yet have had homosexuals in recent years say how the Democrats are simply using them by not dealing with many of their issues and just banking on them not voting Republican. The Democrats are viewed as the party move looking out for Black people, and thus its more likely that someone with little political knowledge will go that way because they believe that party is more in touch with the things they feel is important.

Fifthly, the different ideologies. Conservatism, though it doesn't always show it on a board like this, generally abhors a victim mentality. The belief that things are stacked against you so you deserve things to be balanced either equal or into your favor due to that. As such you don't normally see as many prominent Republican groups pushing say "Black" issues or "Woman" issues because often they simply see things as "Issues". This big tent, we're all the same, approach has its benefits and negatives but one of those negatives is it takes away the notion of identity grouping. While some argue its a bad thing, and at times I agree, it can also be a powerful one. Humans in many ways are hardwired to want to form into groups, cliques, societies, etc. Part of how humans do that is by identifying similarities, and race can be a powerful similarity. By forgoing the use of that as a form of recruitment you improve your message of generalized equality but you hinder yourself with the use of recruitment based on identity.

So, in general summary, my thoughts....

1) The after affects of the civil rights era
2) The prominence of left leaning black political organizations
3) The higher reliance on services supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans
4) The perception, right or wrong, that the Democrats are more in touch with issues important to blacks
5) Conservative ideology making identity based recruitment less frequent than on the opposite side

I think all those things largely play into why many of the majority of the African American population tends to vote Democrat.
 
Truthfully, blind leading the blind

Interesting. You don't think it could have anything to do with the fact that Democrats embrace bottom up economic policies and Republicans favor trickle down economic policies and as black folk tend to be more impoverished, they favor Democratic policies out of self interest? Perhaps the fact that the tea party is 89% white is indicative of the socioeconomic realities of the tea party's composition and it represents a segment of the population that is not nearly as impoverished and thus is more likely out of self interest to support trickle down policies?

First law of libertarianism, "Cui bono?"
 
Last edited:
Where did you get these statistics, because they aren't accurate.

The numbers that keep coming up when I search is from 2006 (haven't found anything more recent) that there are roughly 29.9 million welfare recipients. Of that whites make up 39%, blacks 38%, and hispanics 17%. That comes out to 11,661,000 for whites. 11,362,000 for Blacks. And 5,083,000 for hispanics.

Now the make up of the US from what I've found has roughly 196.8 million whites, a bit under 39 million blacks, and 26.7 million hispanics.

Now, dividing the total population of each race with the numbers of that race on welfare, we come out with how many individuals per grouping is on welfare. Which in this case is roughly 1:17 white, 1:4 black, and 1:5 hispanic.

Since you apparently believe them to be inaccurate that seems to imply you have some kind of different figures. What numbers do you have?
 
Last edited:
Far from a simple thing to answer.

First and foremost likely family ties. Most casual political observers gain their initial feeling towards politics from their parents. Many voting age black people of today either lived during the Civil Rights movement or are childrens of members of the Civil Rights movement. In the time following that many of these individuals gravitated to support for the Democratic Party and thus in part out of loyalty/grattitude on the part of those living during it and in part based on history and family for the children, they continue voting that way.

Secondly, the majority of largely black political organizations in the country are left leaning in nature. This means blacks attempting to get involved with politics and identifying closely with their race are more likely to be brought into it from a liberal view point. This also helps establish the image, rightly or wrongly, that the Democrats cares about "black issues" while the Republicans do not. For casual voters, which makes up the majority of any race, this appearance could be enough to sway someone significantly.

Thirdly, as I pointed out in another post, unfortunantly for the black community a higher percentage of their people tend to utilize various entitlement programs that are typically championed by the left and condemned by the right. As such, human nature leads one to generally look more positively on things that helps oneself. That's not to say such a thing is right or wrong. But in general, if you're recieving some kind of social service you're more apt to view it as a good and necessary thing than someone who is not.

Fourthly, again as I pointed out with the Tea Party, image means a lot for casual voters. The Democratic Party is simply portrayed, rightly or wrongly, as the party for black people. Its similar to how they're portrayed similarly as the party for homosexuals, yet have had homosexuals in recent years say how the Democrats are simply using them by not dealing with many of their issues and just banking on them not voting Republican. The Democrats are viewed as the party move looking out for Black people, and thus its more likely that someone with little political knowledge will go that way because they believe that party is more in touch with the things they feel is important.

Fifthly, the different ideologies. Conservatism, though it doesn't always show it on a board like this, generally abhors a victim mentality. The belief that things are stacked against you so you deserve things to be balanced either equal or into your favor due to that. As such you don't normally see as many prominent Republican groups pushing say "Black" issues or "Woman" issues because often they simply see things as "Issues". This big tent, we're all the same, approach has its benefits and negatives but one of those negatives is it takes away the notion of identity grouping. While some argue its a bad thing, and at times I agree, it can also be a powerful one. Humans in many ways are hardwired to want to form into groups, cliques, societies, etc. Part of how humans do that is by identifying similarities, and race can be a powerful similarity. By forgoing the use of that as a form of recruitment you improve your message of generalized equality but you hinder yourself with the use of recruitment based on identity.

So, in general summary, my thoughts....

1) The after affects of the civil rights era
2) The prominence of left leaning black political organizations
3) The higher reliance on services supported by Democrats and opposed by Republicans
4) The perception, right or wrong, that the Democrats are more in touch with issues important to blacks
5) Conservative ideology making identity based recruitment less frequent than on the opposite side

I think all those things largely play into why many of the majority of the African American population tends to vote Democrat.

Two of the best political posts (In a row even) that I have seen on these forums for a while now!


Tim-
 
Interesting. You don't think it could have anything to do with the fact that Democrats embrace bottom up economic policies and Republicans favor trickle down economic policies and as black folk tend to be more impoverished, they favor Democratic policies out of self interest? Perhaps the fact that the tea party is 89% white is indicative of the socioeconomic realities of the tea party's composition and it represents a segment of the population that is not nearly as impoverished and thus is more likely out of self interest to support trickle down policies?

First law of libertarianism, "Cui bono?"


The truth is democrats use blacks for votes just like they cultivate illegal immigration for votes.
Most all the major predominantly minority cities in this country have been run and controlled by democrats for decades and the plight of the citizens living there has not only not improved but has gotten worse...Democrats sell lip service to minority issues for effect but in actuality dont do squat. Throwing billions at giveaway programs to employ democrats has failed and failed miserably...be honest for once and look at all the results
 
Now, dividing the total population of each race with the numbers of that race on welfare, we come out with how many individuals per grouping is on welfare. Which in this case is roughly 1:17 white, 1:4 black, and 1:5 hispanic.

That makes more sense. I didn't know you had already accounted for racial breakdown.
 
The numbers that keep coming up when I search is from 2006 (haven't found anything more recent) that there are roughly 29.9 million welfare recipients. Of that whites make up 39%, blacks 38%, and hispanics 17%. That comes out to 11,661,000 for whites. 11,362,000 for Blacks. And 5,083,000 for hispanics.

Now the make up of the US from what I've found has roughly 196.8 million whites, a bit under 39 million blacks, and 26.7 million hispanics.

Now, dividing the total population of each race with the numbers of that race on welfare, we come out with how many individuals per grouping is on welfare. Which in this case is roughly 1:17 white, 1:4 black, and 1:5 hispanic.

Since you apparently believe them to be inaccurate that seems to imply you have some kind of different figures. What numbers do you have?


CT just got owned.. :)


Tim-
 
Two of the best political posts (In a row even) that I have seen on these forums for a while now!


Tim-

The bonus of being called a fake conservative for a good long time or essentially being made out to be a republican uncle tom is the fact that I don't really care what people think or wish to assume based on what I write. I know what I think, how I view things, and why I view them that way. Doesn't mean I'm not swayable, but it does mean I'm not worried that I may say something politically incorrect or that could be easily manipulated by people wanting to make it seem like I'm saying more than I am. As such I generally don't mind answering typically loaded bait questions honestly.
 
The truth is democrats use blacks for votes just like they cultivate illegal immigration for votes.
Most all the major predominantly minority cities in this country have been run and controlled by democrats for decades and the plight of the citizens living there has not only not improved but has gotten worse...Democrats sell lip service to minority issues for effect but in actuality dont do squat. Throwing billions at giveaway programs to employ democrats has failed and failed miserably...be honest for once and look at all the results

Oh really? The poverty rates for African Americans have not improved at all?

Black-poverty-rate-for-2008-1.jpg


Oh poohy! Those dang facts always seem to get in the way!
 
The bonus of being called a fake conservative for a good long time or essentially being made out to be a republican uncle tom is the fact that I don't really care what people think or wish to assume based on what I write. I know what I think, how I view things, and why I view them that way. Doesn't mean I'm not swayable, but it does mean I'm not worried that I may say something politically incorrect or that could be easily manipulated by people wanting to make it seem like I'm saying more than I am. As such I generally don't mind answering typically loaded bait questions honestly.

Me either.. However, I just thought that both of your posts on this issue were spot on, and wholly realistic!


I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on all the issues, but I never mind giving credit to a great post now and again. Just wished that I had been able to arrange in my mind, what you put down so eloquently, wihtout what appears to be any effort on your part.. :)

Nice post all the same!


Tim-
 
Oh really? The poverty rates for African Americans have not improved at all?

Black-poverty-rate-for-2008-1.jpg

Wasnt addressing poverty rates specifically, was addressing quality of life in the cities...their education, their growth and where did that graph come from
 
Oh really? The poverty rates for African Americans have not improved at all?

Black-poverty-rate-for-2008-1.jpg


Oh poohy! Those dang facts always seem to get in the way!

Link? Looks amatuerish frankly. Did you draw it up yourself? :)


Tim-
 
That makes more sense. I didn't know you had already accounted for racial breakdown.

Yep. I admitted earlier in this thread, a number of times, that of actual welfare recipients Whites make up the largest amount of any SINGULAR race. That said, just giving those numbers give little insight into how that might affect the race as a whole with regards to the base amount of individuals likely to be affected with regards to voting persuation.

When you have almost 200 million people to theoritically attract, likely loosing out on 12 million of them is of little consequence comparitive to losing out on 12 of 40 million.

I appreciate the response though :) I never mind people asking me to further explain my statements...god knows I'm not perfect and can have bad information/do bad math sometimes.
 
Yep. I admitted earlier in this thread, a number of times, that of actual welfare recipients Whites make up the largest amount of any SINGULAR race. That said, just giving those numbers give little insight into how that might affect the race as a whole with regards to the base amount of individuals likely to be affected with regards to voting persuation.

When you have almost 200 million people to theoritically attract, likely loosing out on 12 million of them is of little consequence comparitive to losing out on 12 of 40 million.

I appreciate the response though :) I never mind people asking me to further explain my statements...god knows I'm not perfect and can have bad information/do bad math sometimes.

I'm sticking to my much simpler explaination.

Democrats embrace bottom up economic policies and Republicans favor trickle down economic policies and as black folk tend to be more impoverished, they favor Democratic policies out of self interest. The fact that the tea party is 89% white is indicative of the socioeconomic realities of the tea party's composition and it represents a segment of the population that is not nearly as impoverished and thus is more likely out of self interest to support trickle down policies.
 
ROFL! Poverty rates equate to all of those things. The fact is you have no measure for how bad things were before for blacks, you only have your anecdotal experience of how bad they are now.

Here is the site I grabbed it from.

Poverty in America – black poverty issues | America's North Shore Journal

I was born and raised in the inner city of a Major city, I wasnt a spoonfed white kid...and my major city is in shambles now compared to even 20 yrs ago...

You need to get out more critical, read up on camden NJ and tell me how the black plight has improved...or newark NJ or cleveland or Philadelphia any number of black cities run by DEMOCRATS...who have been given billions in federal money and did nothing with it.
 
I was born and raised in the inner city of a Major city, I wasnt a spoonfed white kid...and my major city is in shambles now compared to even 20 yrs ago...

Most major cities have fallen apart as a result of the manufacturing industry shutting down and being outsourced. It has little to do with the economic policies of either party. I sincerely doubt it is any different where you were raised.

You want to demonstrate how critical you are, show me some evidence that your city is any different.
 
ROFL! Poverty rates equate to all of those things. The fact is you have no measure for how bad things were before for blacks, you only have your anecdotal experience of how bad they are now.

Here is the site I grabbed it from.

Poverty in America – black poverty issues | America's North Shore Journal

The link to the US census that this is presumably tallied from is no longer working. But either way, what is the answer, CT? Should we throw even more money at minority poverty? Asians are an even higher minority, Jews but yet they don't seem to have the same levels of poverty? It isn't that they are a minority then, so it must be something else; culture perhaps? Indentured servitude? Fatherless babies? I don't know, but it seems endemic to a very select demographic.


Tim-
 
...a group formed initially to combat excessive government spending. The Tea Party members were fiscally conservative republicans opposed to the bank bailouts proposed by President Bush. Once a democrat was elected president those same fiscal conservatives were then labelled racist haotemongers because they dared to oppose increased governmental spending, especially the health care legislation, which was voted on by members of congress that had never so much as read the bill and had no idea what it would cost. The Tea Party has been presistently villified because they think a federal government that has spent the US into a 14+ trillion dollar debt and annual deficits of over a trillion dollars is a 'bad' thing. The Tea Party members are majority fiscally conservative republicans, which makes some people ask WTF is wrong with fiscally responsible democrats and why they too dont take a strong stand against deficit federal spending.
 
I think that it started out really good as a grass roots campaign for better government. Though I feel that it quickly got captured by the standard party politic and has been used by both sides at this point for propaganda.
 
I'm sticking to my much simpler explaination.

Democrats embrace bottom up economic policies and Republicans favor trickle down economic policies and as black folk tend to be more impoverished, they favor Democratic policies out of self interest. The fact that the tea party is 89% white is indicative of the socioeconomic realities of the tea party's composition and it represents a segment of the population that is not nearly as impoverished and thus is more likely out of self interest to support trickle down policies.

So...

Dissatisfied white people equal Tea Party
Dissatisfied blacks equal Democratic Party

Seems we're all dissatisfied here? :)


Tim-
 
Back
Top Bottom