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Would you favor a law banning burqas in the United States?

Would you favor a law banning burqas in the United States?

  • Yes

    Votes: 15 17.6%

  • No

    Votes: 66 77.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • Total voters
    85
samsmart said:
And the United States is in great danger of invasion and conquest by the Taliban these days?
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I dont understand your point sam, where in my post does it mention us being invaded by the taliban ? I was referring to the French law which makes sense and I agree with...and if they did it here Id give it a big oooohrah.
 
What is it with these threads lately? Ban burning the Quran, ban burqa's...what next? Ban robes?
 
samsmart said:
Well, what you say may be the case in Arab Muslim countries where women are forced to wear burqas.

However, here in the United States women have the freedom of speech and freedom of religion to refuse to wear it as well.

That's what you fail to realize - that people have a choice. And in the United States Muslim women have the choice to be as religiously conservative as they want to be. Or as secular and liberated as she wants to be.

And should a community try to ostracize her for her choices then she also has the freedom of association and therefore may choose not to associate with that community. And should such a community choose to infringe on her civil rights and civil liberties she can use the due process of law to protect herself against that community.

So the same freedom of speech and freedom of religion that prevents a ban of the wearing of burqas by women is also the same freedom of speech and freedom of religion that prevents the forced wearing of burqas by women.
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I agree 100%, a ban like this would be unconstitutional, and I could never support it.
 
lpast said:
Great post :) Just like the taliban controlling afghanistan before we went in would beat women in the street with a stick for dropping their veils or wearing what THEY considered inappropriate attire. Many women would throw that miserable uncomfortable thing away in a flash if the men would allow it.
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And the muslims of the middle east are like American muslims how?
 
TheBook said:
Actually... for the most part we are. As long as what we're wearing doesn't directly do harm to others, we can wear whatever we want. Hell, in some states, women can go topless, or choose to NOT wear whatever they want.
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Well you're not gonna see my unspeakables out in public!. Unless the priest says it's ok.
 
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lpast said:
I dont understand your point sam, where in my post does it mention us being invaded by the taliban ? I was referring to the French law which makes sense and I agree with...and if they did it here Id give it a big oooohrah.
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I grew up in an extremely rural area. It was exceedingly cut off and even more conservative, especialy religiously.

There was this one church who believed it was sinful for women to be like men. Therefore, the girls could only keep their hair long and weren't allowed to wear pants - they could only wear dresses. Also, those girls were expected to marry young and be a housewife and stay at home to raise kids while her husband went to work and brought home the bacon. For a woman to do anything besides those things could be considered an act of sin, since woman was designed by God to be a helpmate for man.

Naturally, this isn't the most enlightened of stances, even among mainstream American Christians. Feminists and even political centrists could easily argue that such a dogma served only to inhibit the freedoms and liberties of women through the use of religion.

So what does that means we should do? Does that mean that we should ban dresses and skirts because those are clothings that designed specifically for women, and by having fashions designed solely for women who separate them from men, which is an innate act of discrimination? So the state should force women to wear unisex clothing, like pants and shorts?

Or does that mean that because that religion demands women to be housewives and stay-at-home mothers that we should ban women from marrying, issue state-enforced birth-control, and use the government to mandate that they get a college education and enter the work force?

I don't believe in banning such things anywhere for any reason. However, neither do I believe in enforcing such things through the use of the government either. People should have the freedom of choice for themselves.

No government prevent a person from wearing something of religious significance to them. But neither should a government punish a person for not wearing something of religious significance to the government either.
 
samsmart said:
However, here in the United States women have the freedom of speech and freedom of religion to refuse to wear it as well.
.
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There is freedom of speech in France, and elsewhere - some of you guys seem to think you have the monopoly on it. When an impressionable young girl is repeatedly told by the males in her family that if she doesn't want to cover up completely she is a slut and they'll punish or disown her, that profoundly limits her choices. If you think that never happens on US territory you are profoundly naïve

samsmart said:
That's what you fail to realize - that people have a choice. And in the United States Muslim women have the choice to be as religiously conservative as they want to be. Or as secular and liberated as she wants to be..
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No, not all of them have that choice. Again you're being profoundly naïve.
samsmart said:
And should a community try to ostracize her for her choices then she also has the freedom of association and therefore may choose not to associate with that community. And should such a community choose to infringe on her civil rights and civil liberties she can use the due process of law to protect herself against that community.
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Oh yeah, and that's a really easy thing to do isn't it?
 
Im for banning the burqa, imagine that. Then we ban the mosque.
 
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Your Star said:
And the muslims of the middle east are like American muslims how?
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No honor killings here right ? no terrorists either right ? and theres no muslim women wearing burqas that wouldnt if not forced by their spouses right ?
 
Urethra Franklin said:
There is freedom of speech in France, and elsewhere - some of you guys seem to think you have the monopoly on it. When an impressionable young girl is repeatedly told by the males in her family that if she doesn't want to cover up completely she is a slut and they'll punish or disown her, that profoundly limits her choices. If you think that never happens on US territory you are profoundly naïve



No, not all of them have that choice. Again you're being profoundly naïve.


Oh yeah, and that's a really easy thing to do isn't it?
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Oh, I'm aware that it happens here in the U.S.

But I'm also aware that in the U.S. that doing such a thing can be considered emotional abuse to a minor, and the Department of Children and Families can get involved and investigate the matter and put that child someplace else until they determine whether or not she's in danger of her family or community and if that is the case they can forcibly separate her from her family and community to ensure that they do not endanger her.

Then when she reaches the age of majority she can choose for herself whether she thinks she's a slut if she doesn't cover herself up completely and then do so or don't do so as she chooses.

And no, I don't think the U.S. holds a monopoly on the freedom of speech. I just think that the French government banning a specific type of clothing is a violation of it. Just like I think that the U.S. government violates other freedoms according to the policies they have regarding certain things.
 
lpast said:
No honor killings here right ? no terrorists either right ? and theres no muslim women wearing burqas that wouldnt if not forced by their spouses right ?
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Here in the U.S., women are free to divorce their husbands, and many states have no-fault divorces. And I don't know if it's policy or not, but I do think that people seeking a divorce who feel endangered by their spouse be entitled to a certain amount of protection from them.

There are more alternatives to this issue than banning burqas.
 
1st Article of the French constitution…’France respects all beliefs.’ :doh
 
Urethra Franklin said:
No, not all of them have that choice. Again you're being profoundly naïve.
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They do have a choice

Oh yeah, and that's a really easy thing to do isn't it?
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Who said it was easy? The same argument you are using could be applied to being gay, transgendered, not going into the family business, getting a tattoo, doing anything that is against your family's wishes.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
There is freedom of speech in France, and elsewhere - some of you guys seem to think you have the monopoly on it. When an impressionable young girl is repeatedly told by the males in her family that if she doesn't want to cover up completely she is a slut and they'll punish or disown her, that profoundly limits her choices. If you think that never happens on US territory you are profoundly naïve
No, not all of them have that choice. Again you're being profoundly naïve.
Oh yeah, and that's a really easy thing to do isn't it?
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Not having a choice is not the same as having a difficult choice. Furthermore, in France, they would not have a choice, to wear it or not, which is as bad as being forced to wear it. And regardless of whether what you said happens in the US, the choice remains.
 
Burqas could disappear tomorrow, and we would still probably have just as many honor killings, abusive and domineering husbands, and subjugation as we do today. A piece of cloth does not create these things; it is a culture of male domination and female subservience. Instead of protecting abused women, this law only sends a message to abused women that their problem is due to a piece of cloth. Quick-fixes usually do not work, and this law is no exception.

The law also ignores women that want to wear it. It seems strange that someone would cover their body in a hot shawl to please God, but people do a lot of strange thing to feel close to God. Look at the Amish. The women who choose to wear a Burqa have the right to feel close to God in their own, strange way as long as they are not hurting anybody else, just like everybody.
 
pbrauer said:
Tomorrow France's Burqa Ban law goes into effect, would you be in favor of a similar law here in the United States?

Debate as France readies burqa ban - UPI.com

burqa-clad-muslim-women_246.jpg
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No.Because we are not some Eurotrash country that ****s on freedom of speech and religion. todays its the burqa they ban tomorrow it could be bibles,book of Mormons, and other stuff they try to ban.

If you testify in court, get a driver's license/ID, have to purchase something that requires that you be a certain age and a handful of other situations and maybe even while driving you should have to show your face or leave it uncovered while you are a driving.
 
samsmart said:
Here in the U.S., women are free to divorce their husbands, and many states have no-fault divorces. And I don't know if it's policy or not, but I do think that people seeking a divorce who feel endangered by their spouse be entitled to a certain amount of protection from them.

There are more alternatives to this issue than banning burqas.
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Your not up on the honor killings in america are you sam...do a quick google or bing..theres daughters being killed by their fathers for being to uhhh american.
 
lpast said:
Your not up on the honor killings in america are you sam...do a quick google or bing..theres daughters being killed by their fathers for being to uhhh american.
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So we should ban burqas, and thus promote fathers who kill their daughters for wanting to be religiously conservative?

Honor killings don't have much to do with burqas. What they have to do with is sociopathic people who shouldn't be having children are breeding anyways. Those sociopaths just use the wearing of burqas as an excuse. If we were to ban burqas then they'd just pick something else to kill their children over.
 
In public areas, absolutely. Banks, etc. Muslims are not immune from the same kind of security measures that the rest of us have to go to simply because they practice Islam. Same thing goes for Identification.
 
No. Only in the cases of checking/taking photo ids should they be taken off.
 
Urethra Franklin said:
There is freedom of speech in France, and elsewhere - some of you guys seem to think you have the monopoly on it.
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Not a monopoly, but I tell you, I've learned from my time on this board that several members here who aren't American seem to have no trouble with the notion of limiting speech if it could be offensive to others. When I found out that some countries (and I have no idea if France is one of them) had hate speech laws, where someone could be criminally liable just for saying something negative about a protected class of people, it kinda blew my mind. I don't mean to say such laws are wrong, but they're definitely wrong for America. Speaking only my opinion, I prefer to have freedom of speech even if that means people get to say things that offend me.

To the OP question, I'd have say I would oppose such a ban.
 
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SgtRock said:
Im for banning the burqa, imagine that. Then we ban the mosque.
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*rolls eyes*

I forgot that freedom of religion only applies if someone is trying to suppress Christianity/Judaism...
 
TheBook said:
*rolls eyes*

I forgot that freedom of religion only applies if someone is trying to suppress Christianity/Judaism...
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We should ban the church and the temple as well. Imagine no religion, its easy if you try.
 
SgtRock said:
We should ban the church and the temple as well. Imagine no religion, its easy if you try.
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We've already been over this, and nobody wants this

gournelos-image004.jpg
 
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