View Poll Results: Will you go see the Atlas Shrugged movie?

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Thread: Atlas Shrugged movie

  1. #81
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's your take on it, I've never read it but I understand what the purpose of the story and characters were about.

    They were supposed to be "super men/women."
    Doing things that are unbelievable to tell a tail with an idea behind it.
    Not much different than Vonnegut and his "Harrison Bergeron" short story.
    Fair enough. I also dislike Superman as a character. I simply see no appeal in perfect beings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Having an ideal philosophy and living in an non ideal world does not make someone a hypocrite.

    "Hypocrisy is an unconscious self-contradiction: a state of incongruence between one's professed beliefs and feelings and one's actual beliefs and feelings, or an application of a criticism to others that one does not apply to oneself."

    "Hypocrisy is not simply a lie, saying something which one knows to be false. Neither is it simply failing to practice those virtues that one preaches."

    Hypocrisy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    You're applying your form of ethics to Objectivism and then saying that debunks it?
    To hypocrisy, you can call it what you will, but she consistently claimed that those who accepted public assistance didn't deserve to live. By her own logic, she did not deserve to live.

    I'm not applying my own form of ethics. I'm applying logic. I'm saying that Objectivism is unethical for the same reasons racism is. Now, if you believe that racism is ethical, then fine, by your definition of ethics Objectivism may indeed be ethical, but most agree that treating one group of people worse for purely arbitrary reasons is wrong. Objectivism is the practice of treating a group of people worse for arbitrary reasons (i.e. they aren't you).
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

  2. #82
    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
    Spartacus FPV's Avatar
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I guess I am a more practical person than she is. I prefer to deal with real things whenever possible.
    Watch her Donahue interviews, she goes into how she favors Romanticism in ART, and how this has nothing do to with her behavior in reality.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  3. #83
    Only Losers H8 Capitalism
    Spartacus FPV's Avatar
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Fair enough. I also dislike Superman as a character. I simply see no appeal in perfect beings.
    Perfect beings? How does this apply to Ayn Rand's heroes? I hardly consider an inventor, or a woman capable of running a railroad "perfection;" Just heroic.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    To hypocrisy, you can call it what you will, but she consistently claimed that those who accepted public assistance didn't deserve to live. By her own logic, she did not deserve to live.

    I'm not applying my own form of ethics. I'm applying logic.
    Evidence for your claim that she used public assistance?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    I'm saying that Objectivism is unethical for the same reasons racism is. Now, if you believe that racism is ethical, then fine, by your definition of ethics Objectivism may indeed be ethical, but most agree that treating one group of people worse for purely arbitrary reasons is wrong. Objectivism is the practice of treating a group of people worse for arbitrary reasons (i.e. they aren't you).
    Worse is a comparative term, treating people worse than what? Just how are you equating selfishness with treating others badly? She advocates treating others well for purely selfish reasons.

    You obviously don't understand objectivism.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 04-05-11 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Typo
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  4. #84
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Fair enough. I also dislike Superman as a character. I simply see no appeal in perfect beings.
    That's fine, I'm not trying to twist you arm one way or another.
    Just putting it into perspective is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    To hypocrisy, you can call it what you will, but she consistently claimed that those who accepted public assistance didn't deserve to live. By her own logic, she did not deserve to live.
    Those programs aren't self described as public assistance though, most proponents call them "social insurance."

    Where you contribute and receive a benefit.
    Did or did she not pay for Medicare and Social Security through her taxes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    I'm not applying my own form of ethics. I'm applying logic. I'm saying that Objectivism is unethical for the same reasons racism is. Now, if you believe that racism is ethical, then fine, by your definition of ethics Objectivism may indeed be ethical, but most agree that treating one group of people worse for purely arbitrary reasons is wrong. Objectivism is the practice of treating a group of people worse for arbitrary reasons (i.e. they aren't you).
    See Lachean's response.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #85
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Worse is a compartive term, treating people worse than what? Just how are you confusing selfishness with treating others badly? She advocates treating others well for purely selfish reasons.
    I will use your tactic of defining Selfishness:

    Selfishness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Selfishness is harming someone else in order to help oneself"

    But even if she merely means excessive self-interest, that is still immoral for the same reasons I have stated previously. Placing one's own needs or desires above those of others involves discrimination between oneself and others based on arbitrary factors. As I said, it is unethical for the same reason as racism, even if through the course of it you do something ethically good, you are still doing so for unethical reasons.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

  6. #86
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    It mainly depends on the reviews, but if I have the $$$ and time, then ya, I'd go see it for kicks
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

  7. #87
    Doesn't go below juicy
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Watch her Donahue interviews, she goes into how she favors Romanticism in ART, and how this has nothing do to with her behavior in reality.
    Art is a means to communicate an idea. However, if that idea does not reflect reality, but rather something humans aren't and will never be, then while it may be good for art, it sucks at convincing people of anything. I don't care if its art, I read books to learn something and to gain insight into human nature, Atlas is fundamentally unable to provide me with either, which means she failed as an author if I was her intended audience.

  8. #88
    Sage
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    I will use your tactic of defining Selfishness:

    Selfishness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "Selfishness is harming someone else in order to help oneself"

    But even if she merely means excessive self-interest, that is still immoral for the same reasons I have stated previously. Placing one's own needs or desires above those of others involves discrimination between oneself and others based on arbitrary factors. As I said, it is unethical for the same reason as racism, even if through the course of it you do something ethically good, you are still doing so for unethical reasons.
    Selfishness and self interest are 2 easily confusable terms, both have different specific meanings and are typically used as synonyms when they aren't.

    Objectivism uses self interest as it's defining term.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #89
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Selfishness and self interest are 2 easily confusable terms, both have different specific meanings and are typically used as synonyms when they aren't.

    Objectivism uses self interest as it's defining term.
    Fair enough. As I said, my argument still stands.

    On a lighter note, I'm surprised they managed to find enough people in "Liberal Hollywood" to actually make this movie.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

  10. #90
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Fair enough. As I said, my argument still stands.

    On a lighter note, I'm surprised they managed to find enough people in "Liberal Hollywood" to actually make this movie.
    They didn't, it's totally financed by one guy.
    Hollywood kept rejecting the script.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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