View Poll Results: Will you go see the Atlas Shrugged movie?

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Thread: Atlas Shrugged movie

  1. #41
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    No monopoly has ever existed without the help of governments, free trade does not cause monopolies governments do. But I do invite you to cite an example from history that supports your argument.

    Income inequality is not inherently a bad thing, and what do you mean by "abuse of the workers?" For example?
    Can you site an example? The government has enacted anti-monopoly laws to ensure that we have true freedom and not unrestrained capitalism. Under such a system the largest corporation could buy out competition and be the only supplier. The US has anti-monopoly laws to protect competition and prevent monopolies. AT&T was once a massive telecommunications monopoly that was split up due to US monopoly laws.
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  2. #42
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    Atlas Shrugged is the greatest novel of all time. It is also the greatest selling novel of all time.
    It's not even one of the Top 100 Best-selling books of all time...

    List of best-selling books - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And I just counted all the novels and it doesn't appear. Perhaps it's the greatest selling novel of all time amongst members of the Libertarian Party.

    Ooh! Ooh! Just found it. It was the 10th best-selling novel in the United States in 1957.

    1957

    1. By Love Possessed by James Gould Cozzens
    2. Peyton Place by Grace Metalious
    3. Compulsion by Meyer Levin
    4. Rally 'Round the Flag, Boys! by Max Shulman
    5. Blue Camellia by Frances Parkinson Keyes
    6. Eloise in Paris by Kay Thompson
    7. The Scapegoat by Daphne du Maurier
    8. On the Beach by Nevil Shute
    9. Below the Salt by Thomas B. Costain
    10. Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
    Last edited by Andalublue; 04-05-11 at 01:21 PM.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    And where would the government get the revenue stream to fund the institutions that enforce those property rights, the entire legal system, and the military?
    Police, military and law courts do not cost much. A VERY small national sales tax would more than cover for this.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  4. #44
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Lachean: I think we're all interested in your take on how there would be no monopolies with a minimalist government. Saying that "no monopoly has existed without gov't support" is not the same as saying that monopolies wouldn't exist in the absence of government. My personal opinion is that anti-trust laws are there for a pretty damn good reason.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  5. #45
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Lachean: I think we're all interested in your take on how there would be no monopolies with a minimalist government. Saying that "no monopoly has existed without gov't support" is not the same as saying that monopolies wouldn't exist in the absence of government. My personal opinion is that anti-trust laws are there for a pretty damn good reason.
    In otherwords, I have an antidinosaur stick. How do I know? Well do you see a dinosaur?

  6. #46
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Can you site an example?
    An example of what?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The government has enacted anti-monopoly laws to ensure that we have true freedom and not unrestrained capitalism. Under such a system the largest corporation could buy out competition and be the only supplier. The US has anti-monopoly laws to protect competition and prevent monopolies. AT&T was once a massive telecommunications monopoly that was split up due to US monopoly laws.
    I asked for an example of a monopoly that wasn't brought into being with government help, Google "de jure monopoly" because AT&T prior to 1984 was a perfect example of legal monopoly.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  7. #47
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Considering there has never been a truly "pure capitalism" in existence, how would you know this? My understanding of economics suggests that free markets would punish bad employers and poor quality producers.

    People find other jobs, and don't buy crap. Companies without employees or customers aren't long for this world.

    There was a time where discrimination and workplace safety laws had a place, that time has passed.
    Just look at America before the great depression, the mistreating of employees, child labor, paying of employees in "company money" instead of federal money. No outside agencies to determine the quality of products, and make sure they are safe. It would be terrible, pure capitalism doesn't work, just like pure socialism, doesn't work, a mixture of both is needed for a country to run successfully.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Lachean: I think we're all interested in your take on how there would be no monopolies with a minimalist government. Saying that "no monopoly has existed without gov't support" is not the same as saying that monopolies wouldn't exist in the absence of government.
    I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    My personal opinion is that anti-trust laws are there for a pretty damn good reason.
    I know the reasons, I disagree that they are good.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  9. #49
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Just look at America before the great depression, the mistreating of employees, child labor, paying of employees in "company money" instead of federal money. No outside agencies to determine the quality of products, and make sure they are safe. It would be terrible, pure capitalism doesn't work, just like pure socialism, doesn't work, a mixture of both is needed for a country to run successfully.
    Yep. While in a pure capitalistic society, in theory everyone has rights. In practicality, a person only has the rights they can practically use. Because of that and the inherent problems of differences in practical power, people effectively end up without much in the way of rights.

  10. #50
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Just look at America before the great depression, the mistreating of employees, child labor, paying of employees in "company money" instead of federal money.
    You're talking about the age of the robber barons. The problem with that argument is that it supports my case, because those who got away with such actions used the government to defend themselves from their workers.

    The workers movement to adopt the use of government was the reaction. I say you cannot fight an evil by adopting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    No outside agencies to determine the quality of products, and make sure they are safe.
    Don't get me started on the Food and Drug Admin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    It would be terrible, pure capitalism doesn't work, just like pure socialism, doesn't work, a mixture of both is needed for a country to run successfully.
    Pure capitalism works just fine, pure socialism cannot work. The problem is you think the inequalities created by pure capitalism are inherently bad; I don't.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 04-05-11 at 01:23 PM.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

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