View Poll Results: Will you go see the Atlas Shrugged movie?

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Thread: Atlas Shrugged movie

  1. #191
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    Erm, by studying it?

    Am I wrong in stating that it argues for the ethical code of egoism(the practice of elevating self interest to a status not granted to others)?
    I don't know where that came from. You may be right, but I never heard or read Rand's "idea" that one must discriminate against all others and consider all others inferior. I also have never heard or read that Objectivists elevate self interest to a status not granted to others. I'm not even sure I'm clear on what you mean by that.

  2. #192
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Selfishness and self interest are 2 easily confusable terms, both have different specific meanings and are typically used as synonyms when they aren't.
    Yeah. Exactly like communism and socialism. They have different specific meanings and are typically used as synonyms when they aren't as well.

    Not a jab. Just a commentary on specific meanings of words being important for constructive debate, NOT drawing a comparative example from your comment.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  3. #193
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Objectivism uses self interest as it's defining term.
    I think that what an objectivist defines as "self interest" truly is "selfishness" as the word is commonly used.

    A saint who sacrifices his life for others is still "self interested" because he does it out of concern for his own conscience. But this is still "selfless" behavior and is anathema to a Randian.

  4. #194
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ronpaulvoter View Post
    And you call yourself a libertarian? I think you should reconsider.

    Listen to the Neal Boortz show, or go to Boortz.com for comments.

    Atlas Shrugged is the greatest novel of all time. It is also the greatest selling novel of all time.
    one Hundred Years of Solititude is far better Rand's philosophy has much merit but her books were a bit ponderous



  5. #195
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Heh, as if you can peg me as any of those.
    Aaaawwww.. I can only use you once? I was gonna use you for a whole bingo!

    Jus' playin'. Don't know you well enough to say that!
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  6. #196
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Yeah. Exactly like communism and socialism. They have different specific meanings and are typically used as synonyms when they aren't as well.

    Not a jab. Just a commentary on specific meanings of words being important for constructive debate, NOT drawing a comparative example from your comment.
    According to orthodox Marxist theory, socialism is the transition period between capitalism and communism. This is why Lenin named the new state of Russia, the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics because he did not feel that the state could automatically transition into the stateless utopia of communism. This is also why his policies favored a mixed private-public partnership. Anyone who claims to be a socialist or favors socialism is in favor of the eventual communist utopian dream.

  7. #197
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBook View Post
    I still hold that her beliefs regarding Objectivism are ethically invalid due to their basis in arbitrary discrimination.

    Ideally, the needs of oneself need to be balanced with the needs of others.
    I think you guys got sidetracked when you applied "arbitrary" to "discrimination".

    If I'm right you are concerned that its problematic ifeveryone decides for themselves what is right or wrong.

    It would create far too many possibilities for the darker side of human nature to manifest. For example: I deserve that food more than that guy. Or I want to have sex with children. Or I would put that land to much better use than that guy.

    If everyone gets to decide for themselves what their place in the scheme of things is, unverified or supported by any outside confirmation their is no "moral center".

    And of course I am aware that no one does anything that isn't "selfish".

    Even those things we do for others, other than for our children, are motivated by a need to overcome the discomfort one feels at their plight.

    Not belittling the samaritan or altruist, just repeating how it was explained to me once.

    The theory being explained was that this need to do something to correct anothers suffering, or stand in the way of "abuse", or whatever is genetic in origin, and actually may have been what got us off the savannah.

    One of the differences between us and the other apes is this willingness to help others when there will be no reward.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  8. #198
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I think you guys got sidetracked when you applied "arbitrary" to "discrimination".

    If I'm right you are concerned that its problematic ifeveryone decides for themselves what is right or wrong.

    It's more like deciding where the focal point of right and wrong should be fixed. An objectivist is basically a utilitarian that puts the focal point of morality as the personal experience of the individual (kind of ironic considering the name). That which offers utility to the self is the highest good to the Objectivist.

    This differs from your typical Millsian or Rawlsian utilitarian, who will regard fixing the focal point of morality at the individual level to be arbitrary, because there are more people than the individual, and they are all worth considering. What makes ones own life more valuable than the life of another person, apart from the fact that it is is yours?

    Incidentally, I am not a utilitarian, I am a deontologist. Intuitively, I find very basis of Objectivism to be revolting. It glorifies selfishness

  9. #199
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    According to orthodox Marxist theory, socialism is the transition period between capitalism and communism. This is why Lenin named the new state of Russia, the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics because he did not feel that the state could automatically transition into the stateless utopia of communism. This is also why his policies favored a mixed private-public partnership. Anyone who claims to be a socialist or favors socialism is in favor of the eventual communist utopian dream.
    No, I was referring to the practical definition of socialism that attempts to control the excesses of capitalism while not eliminating the incentive to excel that cripples communism.

    I participated in an actual experiment in communism that failed for the reason it always will outside small groups of like minded AND like abled persons. The effective cannot carry the useless. And I used unconventional terms right now because I feel the usual ones are not really accurate and are too heavily weighted with preconceptions.

    All these things are just economic theories anyway, made up by people. And most things made up by people tend to serve the people who make them up.

    Just sayin'.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  10. #200
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    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I think that what an objectivist defines as "self interest" truly is "selfishness" as the word is commonly used.

    A saint who sacrifices his life for others is still "self interested" because he does it out of concern for his own conscience. But this is still "selfless" behavior and is anathema to a Randian.
    Self interest is selfishness without the wanton disregard for others.
    A self interested person values other people, not for the monetary or material benefits they get from them, but for what makes the person.

    Selfish is such an emotionally laden term, it's not worth using.

    Objectivism, like any form of libertarianism (including libertarian socialist) is not easy for most people to understand.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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