View Poll Results: Will you go see the Atlas Shrugged movie?

Voters
49. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hell, yes

    16 32.65%
  • Maybe

    9 18.37%
  • No

    24 48.98%
  • Duh!

    0 0%
Page 18 of 24 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 232

Thread: Atlas Shrugged movie

  1. #171
    Sage
    Cephus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    CA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:25 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    29,797

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ARealConservative View Post
    I disagree. Libertarianism as a concept is great, but it fails to account for the human equation sufficiently.

    At some level, rights will always get trampled. Can a 5 year old contract? Do we limit rights of the insane, and how do we go about deciding who is insane? Libertarianism doesn’t have an adequate solution for these complex sets of issues. Conservatism does.

    On many issues, I lean libertarian, but ultimately, I recognize that rights don’t matter if nobody cares to defend them. So when we hit an impasse on issues where the vast majority would prefer to not protect that right, forcing them to protect that one right jeopardizes all our rights as the vast majority no longer cares to defend that form of government. The better solution is in these areas where government are allowed to trample rights, to limit their scope as much as possible. States can block things the fed can’t. Counties have even more power then states, Cities more than counties, etc, etc.

    That is what I call the conservative side of libertarianism.
    I don't think libertarianism is great, specifically because it fails to account for the human equation. It assumes that, given freedom, people are going to be responsible in the use of said freedom and I think that's an absurd idea. Most people, given half a chance, will take advantage of any system which allows them to do so. Even those with the greatest claimed morality are going to do things that will better their own situation, even to the detriment of others. That's the biggest downfall of the system, that it doesn't impose controls on those who would play the system and ultimately harm others for their own benefit.

    I'm all for personal responsibility, but I think that, for many, it needs to be imposed from above, rather than assumed from a level playing field.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

    Blog me! YouTube me! VidMe me!

  2. #172
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    You are correct I should have made that addition, to some degree, disregard for one's follow human can be evil. Its highly situational and perspective based though and the range is anywhere from sociopathic to apathetic to uninformed. However, I am not willing to discuss it from Rand's perspective, but my own as I think my own is correct (as a general tendancy, pretty much everyone views their own perspective as correct), so while it may fail from Rand's perspective, frankly, I don't care.
    This is why Rand did not openly support pure selfishness but rational selfishness. She made that distinction very clear but her opponents commonly disregard it.

    The Ayn Rand Institute: The Virtue of Selfishness

  3. #173
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    I don't think libertarianism is great, specifically because it fails to account for the human equation. It assumes that, given freedom, people are going to be responsible in the use of said freedom and I think that's an absurd idea. Most people, given half a chance, will take advantage of any system which allows them to do so. Even those with the greatest claimed morality are going to do things that will better their own situation, even to the detriment of others. That's the biggest downfall of the system, that it doesn't impose controls on those who would play the system and ultimately harm others for their own benefit.

    I'm all for personal responsibility, but I think that, for many, it needs to be imposed from above, rather than assumed from a level playing field.
    A good highlight of this is last week's "this american life" on NPR, the segment about the gift shop.

    See No Evil | This American Life

  4. #174
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    This is why Rand did not openly support pure selfishness but rational selfishness. She made that distinction very clear but her opponents commonly disregard it.

    The Ayn Rand Institute: The Virtue of Selfishness
    That's great and all, but in many cases, I still see it as an evil.

  5. #175
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    That's great and all, but in many cases, I still see it as an evil.
    And you have the right to hold that opinion, but make sure you don't mischaracterize Rand's views on the subject.

  6. #176
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    And you have the right to hold that opinion, but make sure you don't mischaracterize Rand's views on the subject.
    I never intended to and you were right to bring out that distinction as I tend to lump them together in my mind and forget to make it myself. I will probably do it again since I don't really see the distinction as all that important, at least not to my point of view.

  7. #177
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    01-18-13 @ 07:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,631

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    When does self-preservation become selfishness?
    Never. Self-preservation is an aspect of selfishness. BTW, selfishness does not mean "greedy", which is the usual connotation the leftists give it.

    Selfishness is related to egoism, and is a reflection of one's awareness of one's place in the world, one's desires, one's goals, and one's abilities. It's also an awareness that obligations imposed are not obligations but impositions by strangers that can be ignored unless the stranger is holding a gun.

    "Greed" is the desire to gain unearned wealth. A selfish man who earns his wealth is not greedy so long as his accumulation of wealth did not infringe on the freedoms of others.

  8. #178
    Doesn't go below juicy
    tacomancer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Cleveland
    Last Seen
    05-20-16 @ 02:42 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    31,781

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Never. Self-preservation is an aspect of selfishness. BTW, selfishness does not mean "greedy", which is the usual connotation the leftists give it.

    Selfishness is related to egoism, and is a reflection of one's awareness of one's place in the world, one's desires, one's goals, and one's abilities. It's also an awareness that obligations imposed are not obligations but impositions by strangers that can be ignored unless the stranger is holding a gun.

    "Greed" is the desire to gain unearned wealth. A selfish man who earns his wealth is not greedy so long as his accumulation of wealth did not infringe on the freedoms of others.
    Nope, greed is a desire to possess wealth or goods beyond necessity. Look it up. Its a sin we all commit, even the best of us (not that I am in the "best of us" category)

  9. #179
    Mr. Professional
    Mensch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 04:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    3,666
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I never intended to and you were right to bring out that distinction as I tend to lump them together in my mind and forget to make it myself. I will probably do it again since I don't really see the distinction as all that important, at least not to my point of view.
    It is an important distinction, because if you neglect the distinction, you end up thinking Rand supported stealing, killing, and cheating for the sake of self-interest.

    But you're not alone, Rand received much criticism from many areas, both academic and nonacademic, regarding her use of the term.

  10. #180
    Educator TheBook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Last Seen
    11-28-11 @ 01:35 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    880

    Re: Atlas Shrugged movie

    I still hold that her beliefs regarding Objectivism are ethically invalid due to their basis in arbitrary discrimination.

    Ideally, the needs of oneself need to be balanced with the needs of others.
    “The more you know, the harder it is to take decisive action. Once you become informed, you start seeing complexities and shades of gray. You realize that nothing is as clear and simple as it first appears. Ultimately, knowledge is paralyzing.” - Bill Watterson
    Who Is Chicago Ted?

Page 18 of 24 FirstFirst ... 81617181920 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •