View Poll Results: Would You Support Legislation that Would Ban Burning/Destroying the Quran?

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  • Yes

    4 3.67%
  • No

    103 94.50%
  • I don't know

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Thread: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

  1. #51
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    So you are saying Terry Jones taught these crazy nutjobs in the middle east to be hateful and murderous?
    Thats an idiotic argument

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    Yes. Humans are not mindless machines.
    Without going too far off topic, if you've been brought up your entire life believing something and never knew anything else, you cannot be held liable for holding those beliefs.
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  2. #52
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Thats an idiotic argument
    sazerac seemed to be suggesting that.

    Without going too far off topic, if you've been brought up your entire life believing something and never knew anything else, you cannot be held liable for holding those beliefs.
    You can to be held liable for your own actions because you did it. There is this thing called free will.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  3. #53
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    sazerac seemed to be suggesting that.
    :facepalm: No, you suggested that

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    You can to be held liable for your own actions because you did it. There is this thing called free will.
    Of course you're going to be held liable for it, but at the same time, you are not completely responsible.

    Let me give an irrefutable example: a child is raised in a cave from birth to believe that people with blonde hair deserve to die. His parents raise him like that. When he is 18, they give him some weapons, and let him out of the cave. He kills a few people before being captured by police. Are his parents held liable?

    Obviously yes. He did those things, but the parents are also responsible, and I would argue even more than the kid. That kid would be in a mental institute, the parents held liabel for the msot part.
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  4. #54
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, speech with minimal social value, and that which might incite others to imminent lawless action, or might incite an immediate breach of the peace is unprotected.

    Ergo, if that is the only reason, it is already unprotected speech. Or at least should be if that person is taken to court for that speech.
    "395 U.S. 444 (1969), argued 27 Feb. 1969, decided 9 June 1969 by unanimous vote; per curiam decision. Brandenburg v. Ohio was decided in the context of the significant expansion of First Amendment freedoms in the 1960s. It was the final step in the Supreme Court's tortuous fifty‐year development of a constitutional test for speech that advocates illegal action."



    "In its various incarnations, the old clear and present danger test had permitted the punishment of speech if it had a “tendency” to encourage or cause lawlessness (Schenck v. U.S., 1919), or if the speech was part of a broader dangerous political movement, like the Communist party (Dennis v. U.S., 1951). (See Communism and Cold War.) The Brandenburg test, however, allowed government to punish the advocacy of illegal action only if “such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action” (p. 447).
    By requiring an actual empirical finding of imminent harm, this test protects the advocacy of lawlessness except in unusual instances. But government may still punish speech that is demonstrably dangerous. The test is also distinctly more objective than the old danger test. Brandenburg is the linchpin of the modern doctrine of free speech, which seeks to give special protection to politically relevant speech and to distinguish speech from action"

    Brandenburg v. Ohio: Information from Answers.com

  5. #55
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    :facepalm: No, you suggested that
    These are his words-
    "What if a child was taught to be hateful and murderous."

    Of course you're going to be held liable for it, but at the same time, you are not completely responsible.

    Let me give an irrefutable example: a child is raised in a cave from birth to believe that people with blonde hair deserve to die. His parents raise him like that. When he is 18, they give him some weapons, and let him out of the cave. He kills a few people before being captured by police. Are his parents held liable?

    Obviously yes. He did those things, but the parents are also responsible, and I would argue even more than the kid. That kid would be in a mental institute, the parents held liabel for the msot part.
    No his parents are not liable. Yeah they are scumbags for raising him that way. Parents in various parts of the country raise their children to be racists, we do not force them to foot the bill for what ever damage the cross fires their grown adult children have lighted. We do not legally punish the parents if their children grow up to be serial killers, gang bangers, or what ever else because they were or we think they were ****ty parents.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  6. #56
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    You have no freedom to yell 'fire' in a crowed theater, ya know. Can't you just live with that? Do you feel that your rights are being infringed upon?
    There is a HUGE difference between yelling fire in a crowded theater, and saying/expressing something that pisses someone off.
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    This weekend, Sen. Lindsey Graham suggested that he'd like to see Congress consider doing something about burning the Quran.



    Lindsey Graham On Koran Burning: “Freedom Of Speech Is A Great Idea But We’re In A War.”

    If legislation were proposed making it illegal to burn or destroy the Quran (at least publicly) would you support it?

    Follow up question, would such legislation may survive a Constitutional challenge?
    No, I wouldn't support it.

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    No! But understand if you do it in a public way that you may encourage death to our troops and innocent people. You are free to look like a dumbass and burn the Quran all ya want but understand if you brag about it on the news and on the net? You are doing a disservice to your fellow mankind. If you do such things and get your ass hauled down for questions in reguards to Nat. Security? Do not come crying to me about it as you knew that hotbed when you did it.
    ~Following My Own Flow~

  9. #59
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    No. That's asinine. No matter how distasteful our outrageous it is to burn a religious book or icon, it is the right of a person to do.

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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    What a stupid idea.

    The First Amendment first prohibits Congress from passing laws regarding the free exercise of religion.

    Then then First Amendment prohibits Congress from abridging the freedom of speech.

    Then there's Article I, Section 8, which seems to miss allowing Congress the power to kiss muslim butt or cower before the nation's enemies and put chains on Americans instead.

    Then there's the Tenth Amendment that says since the rest of the Constitution does not grant Congress the power to be a sharia court, then the power to be a sharia court does not exist for Congress.

    And Article 4, Section 4 requires the states to have republican forms of government, which again, limits their power to be dumb-asses.

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