View Poll Results: Would You Support Legislation that Would Ban Burning/Destroying the Quran?

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Thread: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

  1. #111
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I enjoy watching someone who in another thread suggested he was some great caretaker of the constitution sitting here and ****ting upon the rights to protest and the rights to free speech.
    Last I checked, the police aren't thought police. You COULD burn a quran to incite and enrage other people. You could also do it out of protest. You could do it as a symbolic message regarding your own religions place above the others. You could do it as a broad condemnation of religion. There's many reasons you could potentially burn a Quran other than to incite people into violence.
    The government has the right to stop you anyway.
    The fire in a threater argument is absolutely retarded to try and compare. In that situation someone is stating something that would have little purpose other than to causea panic (if its done to be a "joke", the "joke" would only be "funny" because people react to it as if its real, ie panic). Furthermore, the reasonable universal reaction to a fire is to get away from that area which can cause a mob panic and rush that can unintentionally on the part of the actors bring harm to people. The person yelling fire is DIRECTLY interacting with the people inside the theater causing an immediete reasonably expected action that could cause harm to others.
    It might cause harm or even death. It might not. It should be up to the government to decide and not somebody with a loose screw. Burning a Koran might not rile anybody. But it might cause a war. It just shouldn't be allowed. Period.
    In regards to the Quran, it is unreasonable to think burning it will result in the death of other people. The amount of militant muslims in the world is estimated at what, less than 10%? So not only would a Muslim need to find out about it, but it'd need to be one of those small percentage of muslims. This is a far lower level of expectation that the action is going to have a direct and immediete negative effect on other individuals than with regards to the fire analogy. Additionally, the actions by said extremist Muslims would not be a reactionary quick reaction to speech but would be a significant, deliberated, thought out, action. It is more akin to telling someone that they're wife is ugly and having that person then come back 3 months later and murder you than it is to the fire analogy. Because while it is a "reaction" of sorts to the Quran burning, its not an immediete reaction.
    Right. Explain that to the families of the dead. It is very easy to reason that burning the Koran might result in death given that it has happened!
    It is reasonable to suggest that yelling fire in the middle of a crowded threater, regardless of whose there, where that theater is, etc, is always likely to result in people attempting to exit the area quickly. It is not reasonable to suggest that a guy in the middle of a small town in Georgia burning a Quran on his front stoop is always likely to result in a muslim attempting to kill someone'
    Pointing a gun at your head and pulling the trigger isn't nessecarily gong to kill you'
    This is not just a stupid idea, but an unconstitutional one.
    Stop dreaming that our founders had the idea that US citizens should be free to do anything they want. Say anything they want. Start wars whenever they want.

  2. #112
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    I find it interesting that people have jumped to defend the Quran from being burned even though the Holy Bible has been being burned for years and relatively little gets said about it.
    If you strike me down, I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.

  3. #113
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I find it interesting that people have jumped to defend the Quran from being burned even though the Holy Bible has been being burned for years and relatively little gets said about it.
    A lot gets said about religeous fanatics that disrupt the funerals of war heroes. Most people really have no stomach for things like bible burning or flag burning but it's the price we pay to live in a free country.

  4. #114
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    The government has the right to stop you anyway.
    The SCOTUS has held that burning of items is a form of speech. The right to Free Speech and the right to protest are ones the government can not abridge unless our right is violating anothers. Burning a Quran in my front yard without fanfare violates no one elses rights.

    It might cause harm or even death. It might not. It should be up to the government to decide and not somebody with a loose screw. Burning a Koran might not rile anybody. But it might cause a war. It just shouldn't be allowed. Period.
    Gotcha. So you're on record stating that the government can remove anyones constitutional right if they feel that "it might" cause harm. Glad to know you think so poorly of the Constitution, it'll help arguments out in other threads where you pretend to be some defender of it.

    Right. Explain that to the families of the dead. It is very easy to reason that burning the Koran might result in death given that it has happened!
    Appeal to Emotion.

    Lets ban cars. Cars have helped result in the death of millions. Go tell the families of the dead that we shouldn't ban all cars from being produced. Its very easy to reason that owning a car may result in the death of someone given that its happened.

    Pointing a gun at your head and pulling the trigger isn't nessecarily gong to kill you'
    But it is far more likely to kill you, and a more reasonable assumption, than stating that someone three states away purchasing a holster is going to result in your being killed. Could their purchasing of a Holster result in a gentleman meeting his quotas for the month and getting a raise which caused him to travel to your state to have an affair with your wife to which you find out and find that man's gun and shoot yourself? SURE, it COULD happen! I guess we need to legislate against holsters. Or we should recognize there's a difference between things that can theoritically happen over a period of time in very narrow scenarios and things that are likely to happen in a broad range of scenarios at the immediete moment.

    Stop dreaming that our founders had the idea that US citizens should be free to do anything they want. Say anything they want. Start wars whenever they want.
    The irony of this coming from you is astounding. Whether or not the "founders" wished it to be that way or not, the document they created and the systems they have put in place have established that the burning of an item is a form of speech, and that there is freedom of speech and to protest. You're bellowing on about hypothetical horrors, I'm pointing out what the courts have actually ruled with regards to burning items as a form of speech.

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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    A lot gets said about religeous fanatics that disrupt the funerals of war heroes.
    And yet by and large people have stated that they don't believe those things should be made illegal.

    Most people really have no stomach for things like bible burning or flag burning but it's the price we pay to live in a free country.
    ROFL

    This coming from the man that's advocating we, in this free country, ban the burning of a book.

    So its okay to burn some religious texts, but not others. Its okay to burn the flag even though that could incite violence, but its not okay to burn the quran because that might incite violence.

    Your argument might have merit if it was logical, consistent, or constitutional.

  6. #116
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I find it interesting that people have jumped to defend the Quran from being burned even though the Holy Bible has been being burned for years and relatively little gets said about it.
    I don't care if either get burned. I can get either book at the local book store for $5. Now if this were the middle ages and the printing press hadn't been invented yet and such books were rare or unique, I would be super pissed. (well probably not if the last Koran was burned, but I consider that religion silly anyway)
    Last edited by tacomancer; 04-05-11 at 02:37 PM.

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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    The government has the right to stop you anyway.
    The government has no rights.

    It also doesn't have the authority, anyway.

    It might cause harm or even death. It might not. It should be up to the government to decide and not somebody with a loose screw. Burning a Koran might not rile anybody. But it might cause a war. It just shouldn't be allowed. Period.
    Why not? If some country is so loosely wired it would be willing to start a war over a few burned pages, then it's going to start the war anyway. But to surrender our freedoms because a handful of people left their testicles behind isn't a good idea. That would lead to more people losing track of their balls. And eventually someone is going to slip on them and hurt themselves falling down the stairs.

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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    I find it interesting that people have jumped to defend the Quran from being burned even though the Holy Bible has been being burned for years and relatively little gets said about it.

    It's really not the issue. There's a certain class of people that wants the United States to be destroyed, and this completely irrelevant issue is one they can use to try to destroy the First Amendment, the very foundation of American freedom. They're similar to the head collecting terrorists in Afghanistan in that they're not well-soldered together and tend to crack at the least provocation. They make little sense when they crack, but, somehow, their responses can be predicted in advance to be whatever course of action would harm the United States the most or restrict the most liberty.

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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    Lindsey Graham is an embarassment to the Republican party.
    No he's not.

    He's an embarassment to all Americans.

  10. #120
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    Re: Should Congress Ban Burning of the Quran

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    It's really not the issue. There's a certain class of people that wants the United States to be destroyed, and this completely irrelevant issue is one they can use to try to destroy the First Amendment, the very foundation of American freedom. They're similar to the head collecting terrorists in Afghanistan in that they're not well-soldered together and tend to crack at the least provocation. They make little sense when they crack, but, somehow, their responses can be predicted in advance to be whatever course of action would harm the United States the most or restrict the most liberty.
    how can you sleep at night, knowing there are subversives all around?

    seriously, dude, i don't care for right wing politics, but i don't think republicans want to destroy the country. i think we all love our country, or at least the majority of us do. your thinking borders on fanaticism.

    Originally Posted by johnny_rebson:

    These are the same liberals who forgot how Iraq attacked us on 9/11.


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