View Poll Results: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Any religious private school that included religious education/indoctrination.

    0 0%
  • Specific religious private schools that included religious education/indoctrination.

    1 3.33%
  • Religious private school that only use tax dollars for secular education.

    1 3.33%
  • Any religious private school whose education is secular.

    2 6.67%
  • Non-religious private schools.

    6 20.00%
  • I support school vouchers regardless of the type of school.

    8 26.67%
  • I do not support school voucher at all regardless of the private school.

    13 43.33%
  • other/I do not know

    4 13.33%
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Thread: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

  1. #51
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhReally? View Post
    So you assert that non-discrimination rules should include academic performance in relation to admittance in schools that get vouchers?
    No... academic performance isn't discrimination. There will be the numerous base charter schools that would accept anyone because they want the money from the vouchers and there will be a market for them because numerous charter school will want that voucher money.
    Last edited by celticwar17; 04-01-11 at 06:20 PM.

  2. #52
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    No... academic performance isn't discrimination. There will be the numerous base charter schools that would accept anyone because they want the money from the vouchers and there will be a market for them because numerous charter school will want that voucher money.
    Academic performance is discrimination. Public schools are not permitted to reject a student based upon academic performance. Private and charter schools are. Just because the charter school wants money doesn't mean they will accept a student that takes more resources to educate. So again, we have a group of students who are not required to be accepted and that violates the mandatory education laws.

  3. #53
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhReally? View Post
    Academic performance is discrimination. Public schools are not permitted to reject a student based upon academic performance. Private and charter schools are. Just because the charter school wants money doesn't mean they will accept a student that takes more resources to educate. So again, we have a group of students who are not required to be accepted and that violates the mandatory education laws.
    the majority schools will not decline on the basis of academic performance. There WILL still be multiple schools trying to fit the niche population they go for, the most successful of those will be the one's that accept any applicants because they have the biggest consumer base.

    Even if you are right... there will still be the base charter schools which are like half/business half/public... you could mandate a specific application for base schools that accept any applicant to get a tax break or something.
    THERE ARE WAYS AROUND THIS. It's not impossible to conceive.

  4. #54
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    the majority schools will not decline on the basis of academic performance. There WILL still be multiple schools trying to fit the niche population they go for, the most successful of those will be the one's that accept any applicants because they have the biggest consumer base.

    Even if you are right... there will still be the base charter schools which are like half/business half/public... you could mandate a specific application for base schools that accept any applicant to get a tax break or something.
    THERE ARE WAYS AROUND THIS. It's not impossible to conceive.
    So at the end of the day you are forcing someone to take the students that no one else wants? And then how do you expect those schools to perform?

  5. #55
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    THERE is where your Liberal comes out...This charter and private school system will make people more accountable for their choice's, it is not simply chosen for them. Parent's and their child will not willingly go to a bad school if they know they have a choice. Why do you think there is a lot of protest in poor african american communities on their education?
    Some parents and community members protest in those neighborhoods. Unfortunately, they aren't the ones whose children are the primary failing students in the education system. It's the parents who don't protest, who are in jail, on drugs, etc. with kids who primarily fail in school.

    The parent's and the child have a personal responsibility to desire quality education. If you do not demand it, you will fail in the real world.
    That is my point. And this is where your callousness and true concerns come out (I would say your Conservative comes out, but that would be stereotyping and a lot of conservatives aren't like you).

    My priority is to improve the education system so that every child will receive a quality education. Parental involvement is a huge factor in providing quality education.

    Unfortunately, children in poor neighborhoods born to uninvolved parents don't have a good chance of succeeding in school and life. So it's callous to say "if you don't demand it, you will fail in the real world" because you're saying that to children who were born into a situation that all but promises them failure. Maybe it's "Liberal" of me, but I have a desire make sure these kids have an education that serves their unique needs as well and not just leave them up to social darwinism.

    Many of their parents won't demand quality and so the same kids who are failing in the current system will continue to fail under yours....but it appears that your less worried about actually fixing the entire education system and more worried about making sure a few kids who got the right parents and the right vouchers get to join the privileged.

    I, on the other hand, want kids with uninvolved parents (who won't "demand it" and who will "fail") to have the same shot at a good education as kids with involved parents. The problem is, many public schools have not tailored their programs to the needs of such kids (more literacy coaches, more tutors, etc.). The ones that have, have improved education in low-income public schools. We need to learn from them.
    Last edited by ThePlayDrive; 04-01-11 at 06:44 PM.

  6. #56
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    the majority schools will not decline on the basis of academic performance. There WILL still be multiple schools trying to fit the niche population they go for, the most successful of those will be the one's that accept any applicants because they have the biggest consumer base.

    Even if you are right... there will still be the base charter schools which are like half/business half/public... you could mandate a specific application for base schools that accept any applicant to get a tax break or something.
    THERE ARE WAYS AROUND THIS. It's not impossible to conceive.
    Private schools and charter schools always get rid of kids with low academic performance - if they didn't, their numbers would be low and they would look unappealing. As a result, the poorly performing students will go to the crappy private/charter schools and we'll be back at square one.

    The problem is not public vs. private/charter. The problem is that our society does not value poor kids as much as rich kids - this lower value isn't necessarily malicious, it's just based in the fact that parents worry mostly about their own children. Therefore, wealthy/middle-class parents will fight for good education in their own neighborhoods, but not in lower-income neighborhoods. So at the end of the day whether it's a fully private or public system, the problem of education won't be solved until someone takes up the fight for poor kids in the same way rich people take it up for theirs.

  7. #57
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhReally? View Post
    So at the end of the day you are forcing someone to take the students that no one else wants? And then how do you expect those schools to perform?
    easy... because those schools want those students... and if they don't make their school good... people will leave and the school will fail.

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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    easy... because those schools want those students... and if they don't make their school good... people will leave and the school will fail.
    The schools don't want bad students. It's why private schools discriminate based upon performance. If you truly believed that schools want students then you would eliminate the discrimination abilities.

  9. #59
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by theplaydrive View Post
    Private schools and charter schools always get rid of kids with low academic performance - if they didn't, their numbers would be low and they would look unappealing. As a result, the poorly performing students will go to the crappy private/charter schools and we'll be back at square one.

    The problem is not public vs. private/charter. The problem is that our society does not value poor kids as much as rich kids - this lower value isn't necessarily malicious, it's just based in the fact that parents worry mostly about their own children. Therefore, wealthy/middle-class parents will fight for good education in their own neighborhoods, but not in lower-income neighborhoods. So at the end of the day whether it's a fully private or public system, the problem of education won't be solved until someone takes up the fight for poor kids in the same way rich people take it up for theirs.
    THATS THE WHOLE REASON FOR A CHARTER/PRIVATE SYSTEM.
    YOU the consumer are in CONTROL.
    This gives poor people a CHOICE and power to where their money is going. What school will they want their voucher going to? A sucky school that doesn't care about their students or the school that cares about their students (customers) and will try and help anyway they can. The school WILL fail if it sucks.

  10. #60
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhReally? View Post
    The schools don't want bad students. It's why private schools discriminate based upon performance. If you truly believed that schools want students then you would eliminate the discrimination abilities.
    the Students have money that they want! money is money, and that's what they have with the voucher. You just have a pre-concieved notion on how our current school system works. Current schools don't want bad student's because they will not get funding otherwise.
    Different schools will have different specialties. If it's a school that is known to help struggling students... THAT IS A GOOD THING... people will want to go to that school... especially if you have a struggling child. You have money in your power with the voucher.
    Last edited by celticwar17; 04-01-11 at 07:37 PM.

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