View Poll Results: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

Voters
30. You may not vote on this poll
  • Any religious private school that included religious education/indoctrination.

    0 0%
  • Specific religious private schools that included religious education/indoctrination.

    1 3.33%
  • Religious private school that only use tax dollars for secular education.

    1 3.33%
  • Any religious private school whose education is secular.

    2 6.67%
  • Non-religious private schools.

    6 20.00%
  • I support school vouchers regardless of the type of school.

    8 26.67%
  • I do not support school voucher at all regardless of the private school.

    13 43.33%
  • other/I do not know

    4 13.33%
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Thread: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

  1. #91
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    Just because it works in some places doesn't make successful. And off course private and charter schools fail... it's a business and businesses fail, but a private a charter school has 10X more motivation to do well and stay in business, because they are reliant on the customer bass. The only reason charter/private schools fail today is because the public school system still exists. And it's okay for a private/charter school to fail, it's actually a good thing, because you have weeded out the bad school/business that has the bad policies, and the better schools will survive. Since people will have a choice you can transfer to a school you think is better if a private or charter school is crap.
    What makes a school fail isn't usually the school, but the parents. If you have active, engaged parents who care about their child's education and are committed to working with their child to get a good education and holding the child accountable, then that child will get a good education. If you don't, then there is little the school can do to force a child who doesn't care, and parent(s) who don't care, to do something they don't care about. The only people who will transfer to a private school are those who already give a damn, people who can already get a decent education where they are. If you pull the people who give a damn out of the schools, they will only sink further into the quagmire because the only ones left behind will be the ones who are only in school because the law requires it.
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  2. #92
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by celticwar17 View Post
    easy... because those schools want those students... and if they don't make their school good... people will leave and the school will fail.
    I went to a private school, back in the day, and there were strict performance guidelines. If you failed classes, they didn't want you, you were not accepted for the next year and no matter how much money you had, you couldn't go to the school. That's the only reason these schools look like they are superior performers, they keep out the educational riff-raff.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I also have to ask, for those of you so resistant to vouchers.

    Just how long should we wait for positive change?
    This topic of ****ty schools has been going on for nearly 30-40 years.
    Should we wait another 30 to find improvements, when they still haven't materialized?
    The only way you're going to see improvement is to force parents to be involved and you really can't do that. Without parental involvement, no school can possibly succeed, you can't teach kids who don't want to learn. Personally, I'm entirely in favor of cutting off any and all public assistance for kids who refuse to get passing grades in school. Take away the gravy train and you'll see parents pushing their kids to perform.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Wait, wait, wait. I understand that teachers have nothing to do with children learning and neither do educators in management. Teachers unions are a negative. The professionals and their apologists deny any responsibility for the problems or the solution. Schools exist to employ teachers who fund the unions who fund the politicians.

    So, since the responsibility is usually put on the parents, why don't we pay the parents? A little training, books and supplies, and we're off and running.

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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    If people want to send their kids to a private school they need to use their own money. Taxes paid for public schools need to stay that way - its part of the Commons.
    exactly. if poor kids are desperate to escape a failing system then they should have thought of that before they were born black.

  6. #96
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    The only way you're going to see improvement is to force parents to be involved and you really can't do that. Without parental involvement, no school can possibly succeed, you can't teach kids who don't want to learn. Personally, I'm entirely in favor of cutting off any and all public assistance for kids who refuse to get passing grades in school. Take away the gravy train and you'll see parents pushing their kids to perform.
    But even then there are a great many parents that think the primary job of the school is to educate their child and that shouldn't have to lift a finger.
    Cutting off public assistance to those won't work.

    Not only that but the schools don't cater much to those who want to excel.
    That evident because we spend more of those with learning disabilities than we do on those without.
    Parents are the majority of the problem but the regimented design of the school systems are the secondary problem.
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    But even then there are a great many parents that think the primary job of the school is to educate their child and that shouldn't have to lift a finger.
    Cutting off public assistance to those won't work.

    Not only that but the schools don't cater much to those who want to excel.
    That evident because we spend more of those with learning disabilities than we do on those without.
    Parents are the majority of the problem but the regimented design of the school systems are the secondary problem.
    Let's fix the parental problem first, then worry about the rest. I think that by targetting low-income parents, which is where the majority of help is needed, and getting them involved in their child's education, you can make a serious dent in the problem. I'll take what improvements I can get, I don't pretend that since we can't fix it all in one go, we shouldn't try at all.
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Any religious private school that included religious education/indoctrination.

    Specific religious private schools that included religious education/indoctrination. (please specify and why object to one religious school and not another)

    Religious private school that will only use tax dollars for secular education. Meaning they promised not to use tax payer dollars for any religious education or indoctrination.They either charged the parents for the religious education/indoctrination, use private donations to fund religious education/indoctrination or or a combination of the two or use volunteers to do the religious teaching/indoctrinating.

    Any religious private school whose education is secular.(in other words they may be a school ran by a religious organization but they have no religious education/indoctrination)

    Non-religious private schools.

    I support school vouchers regardless of the type of school.It should be the parent's choice what type of private school they want to use the vouchers for.

    I do not support school voucher at all regardless of the private school.





    I support vouchers to private schools and I think it should be the parent's choice regardless if they want to send their child to a atheist,Christian,Jewish, Muslim, Catholic or what ever private school.
    I haven't read the rest of this thread, but, to be honest, I'm a bit torn on this issue.

    Ideologically, I'm against school vouchers. I don't think that public school money should be going to private schools.

    However, ideologically, I'm also against boards of education on the level of school districts. I don't think that a centralized authority should have that much control over the policy of so many individual public schools.

    Instead, I think all schools should instead have policy be determined by a board of directors. This board will be made up of an equal number of 1) teachers who work at the school, 2) administrators, 3) parents elected by the other parents who have kids in the school, and 4) students who are seniors or juniors who are elected by the students.

    This way, individual schools will be able to make the policies for their own children and own teachers without getting politicos who don't have any children in those schools involved. If you ask me, THAT is what's ****ing up our public school system the most = too many people telling too many teachers how to teach and telling too many students what to learn even though neither of those things are any of their businesses since they don't have kids in a school.

    However, I'm also a believer in realpolitik. Since private schools have more independence from school district boards, I should be supportive of private school vouchers. But I'm not. I think money for public schools should be spent on public schools, and be spent in different ways too.

    For instance, paying students to go to school. I think we should pay school kids for making good grades. And those who don't want to go to school we shouldn't force to go to school after the 10th grade. Instead, they should have to go to a trade school or get an internship.

    There's a ton of better educational reforms we could do than vouchers for private schools. Vouchers won't change any of the deeper problems of the modern American education system. Vouchers will only treat the symptoms, and not the disease.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  9. #99
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    If they want to be "public schools", they need to be under public control. If they are not, they are private schools and not a place for our education dollars.
    What if vouchers would increase competition and standards between schools? Everyone would gain. Why would you oppose funding something if it would mutually benefit everyone?

    I am just trying to show you that your argument needs a little more substance than, it is not a place for public money. You need something like, it would not improve education, thus we should not fund it.
    Last edited by drz-400; 04-02-11 at 11:25 PM.

  10. #100
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    Re: What kinds of private schools would you support vouchers for?

    For anyone that is interested, this is a video of a man in India who tried experiments with child directed education.

    In one notable experiment, he left a computer and instructed the 12 year old children to learn about biotechnology.
    The rub was that these children did not speak English and that the program was in English.

    When he came back, 2 months later, he found that the kids scored a 30% on a test about biotech, when before they couldn't even read the material.


    Personally, I think it's time for a total revision, of how we educate kids.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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