View Poll Results: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

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Thread: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

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    Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    Even since the first shutdown of the government in 1981, I've always wondered if it was the right thing to do. Recently, I came across this same question in a book I've been reading, "Broken Government," by John W. Dean. So, I re-read the Constitution and came across the following clauses:

    Art 1, Sect 8 (clause 1):

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
    Art 1, Sect 9 (clasue 6):

    No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
    Art 6 (clause 3):

    The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution;
    According to Dean, since each member of Congress takes an oath to support as stipulated in the Constitution (and as setforth in both the House and Senate rules), is it then a violation of their constitutional obligation to properly fund the government as laws dictate for adequate appropriations as outlined in Art 1, Sect 9 to include all facets of government as outlined in Art 1, Sect 8, i.e., "provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States"?

    In light of our current budgetary showdown in DC, I was wondering what others may think of this.

    Your thoughts...

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Even since the first shutdown of the government in 1981, I've always wondered if it was the right thing to do. Recently, I came across this same question in a book I've been reading, "Broken Government," by John W. Dean. So, I re-read the Constitution and came across the following clauses:

    Art 1, Sect 8 (clause 1):



    Art 1, Sect 9 (clasue 6):



    Art 6 (clause 3):



    According to Dean, since each member of Congress takes an oath to support as stipulated in the Constitution (and as setforth in both the House and Senate rules), is it then a violation of their constitutional obligation to properly fund the government as laws dictate for adequate appropriations as outlined in Art 1, Sect 9 to include all facets of government as outlined in Art 1, Sect 8, i.e., "provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States"?

    In light of our current budgetary showdown in DC, I was wondering what others may think of this.

    Your thoughts...
    If it comes to the point a government shuts itself down rather than deals with problems, I'd say the governing articles no longer apply. At that point it's time to wonder whether you can have any sort of society whatsoever, let alone one conforming to the specifications of a constitution.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

    St. Benedict

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    But if the Constitution IS the law of the land, how then can we not make every effort to adhere to it? Are you suggesting that in the absence of compromise it's okay to cast it aside...to disobeyed the very document we hold so dear?

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But if the Constitution IS the law of the land, how then can we not make every effort to adhere to it? Are you suggesting that in the absence of compromise it's okay to cast it aside...to disobeyed the very document we hold so dear?
    The USA Constitution is a living and breathing document so it's meaning can be whatever those in power at any particular time want it to be.

    .

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    The government has no constitutional rights. They have provisional powers given to them by the people in exchange for management of the country and our collective defense. Only individuals have rights. If the government is not upholding the constitution and is blatantly encroaching upon the rights of the people, then they will no longer be government, and as such the people should remove them.

    In short, no, it is not. There is nothing in the constitution that says the government has the right to exist. We allow it to exist, and that is all.

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Temporal View Post
    Only individuals have rights.
    And corporations

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    I would be more concerned about them not obeying the constitution by not protecting our borders and stopping illegal immigration.

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    It's not Constitutional to run the goverment without an approved budget, ergo, if the Congress fails to do it's job, as it did last year, to pass the Constitutionally required budget, it's not Constitutional to keep it running.

    Also, the people to blame for the possible near-future "shut down" will be the Democrats, who refuse to cut their bloated budgets.

    HINTS TO DEMOCRATS:

    YOU'VE BANKRUPTED THE COUNTRY.
    You're not in control of the House.
    If something bad happens because you have your heads up your asses, it's your fault.

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    According to Dean, since each member of Congress takes an oath to support as stipulated in the Constitution (and as setforth in both the House and Senate rules), is it then a violation of their constitutional obligation to properly fund the government as laws dictate for adequate appropriations as outlined in Art 1, Sect 9 to include all facets of government as outlined in Art 1, Sect 8, i.e., "provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States"?

    In light of our current budgetary showdown in DC, I was wondering what others may think of this.

    Your thoughts...
    That reasoning is tenuous at best, and if it was valid it would only apply to those budgetary items that are actually allowed under the Constitution. Social Security, education, welfare, and whatever else, to the tune of roughly 75% of the budget, aren't allowed by the Constitution.

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    Re: Is shutting down the government unconstitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by TOJ View Post
    The USA Constitution is a living and breathing document so it's meaning can be whatever those in power at any particular time want it to be.

    .
    Well, if what you say is true, you absolutely MUST write that in the past tense, because for decades now that "living breathing document", has been breathing helium. So, not only would it's modern voice be completely unrecognizable to the men who wrote it, it'd be dead. After all, there's no way that the Founders could haver created a living breathing document in the 18th Century that could handle unimagined exotic atmospheres. That Constitution was a good old fashioned AMERICAN document breathing the good air God put on earth to make Adam happy. Helium would have killed it right off.

    Then again, the Constitution was never a "living breathing document", it's a piece of paper setting down law, and that document cannot be changed at whim. That document can only be amended by the process encoded in that document itself.

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