View Poll Results: Do you believe in corporate personhood?

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  • Yes

    3 8.82%
  • No

    26 76.47%
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Thread: Corporate Personhood

  1. #41
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I just want to know, how many of you think corporations are people and if so, please, tell me exactly what makes up a corporation and why it is deserving of personhood.

    Personally, I think that coporations should not be considered people. A corporation is nothing but a thing. It has no soul, cannot breath, and in general portrays little to no qualities that a person has.
    For somethings such as contracts etc, it's a useful legal fiction to call corporations persons. Thats said, I think it's a remarkably horrible idea and the seed of the downfall of representative governments to consider corporations to have the rights to lobby our govt.
    I may be wrong.

  2. #42
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    I just want to know, how many of you think corporations are people and if so, please, tell me exactly what makes up a corporation and why it is deserving of personhood.

    Personally, I think that coporations should not be considered people. A corporation is nothing but a thing. It has no soul, cannot breath, and in general portrays little to no qualities that a person has.
    Is your neighborhood get-together a person? Is a union a person? Is an association a person? In the literal sense, of course not. However, these GROUPS of people are entitled to the exact same rights enumerated in the constitution, including the right to speak.

  3. #43
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    For somethings such as contracts etc, it's a useful legal fiction to call corporations persons. Thats said, I think it's a remarkably horrible idea and the seed of the downfall of representative governments to consider corporations to have the rights to lobby our govt.
    You have it precisely backwards. The problem is the liability shield that corporations hide their assets behind. Corporate free speech, on the other hand just makes sense. It is only in the context of our corporatist system that group political lobbying is corrupted. If limited liability were done away with (and corporate welfare generally), then there would be no danger in Citizens United.

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Is your neighborhood get-together a person? Is a union a person? Is an association a person? In the literal sense, of course not. However, these GROUPS of people are entitled to the exact same rights enumerated in the constitution, including the right to speak.
    But a neighborhood get together is not entitled to limited liability. That's the point.
    Last edited by Guy Incognito; 03-29-11 at 09:55 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Then you favor dissolving every contract any corporation has entered into. Nope. It is not just a way to avoid consequences. It is a way for a corporation to own property, enter into union contracts, purchase machinery, hire/fire, etc., etc., etc., etc..

    What you are objecting to is the corporate veil. That should be tested-tested-tested because I suspect more of us than ever find it wrong that individuals can limit their peresonal liability by hiding behind it.
    Being able to enter into a contract does not equate into "personhood". There are trust, corporation, government etc, all distinct entities that are not "person" but with ability to enter into contract.
    Last edited by nonpareil; 03-29-11 at 10:21 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  5. #45
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by nonpareil View Post
    Being able to enter into a contract does not equate into "personhood". There are trust, corporation, government etc, all distinct entities that are not "person" but with ability to enter into contract.
    Legal personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Legal personality (also artificial personality, juridical personalty, and juristic personality) is the characteristic of a non-human entity regarded by law to have the status of a person.

    A legal person (Latin: persona ficta), (also artificial person, juridical person, juristic person, and body corporate, also commonly called a vehicle) has a legal name and has rights, protections, privileges, responsibilities, and liabilities under law, just as natural persons (humans) do. The concept of a legal person is a fundamental legal fiction.
    I may be wrong.

  6. #46
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Legal personality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Legal personality (also artificial personality, juridical personalty, and juristic personality) is the characteristic of a non-human entity regarded by law to have the status of a person.

    A legal person (Latin: persona ficta), (also artificial person, juridical person, juristic person, and body corporate, also commonly called a vehicle) has a legal name and has rights, protections, privileges, responsibilities, and liabilities under law, just as natural persons (humans) do. The concept of a legal person is a fundamental legal fiction.

    Yep, I am wrong. It's fascinating to read the "corporate personhood" actually has a history all the way from the Roman time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Free_Radical View Post

    And I wasn't making an appeal to authority, I was making an appeal to the philosophical body of work of the founders, the worth and content of which should be well-known to anyone with a cursory understanding of basic history and philosophy.

    Brian

  7. #47
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    But a neighborhood get together is not entitled to limited liability. That's the point.
    You have suggested that individual stockholders be held liable for the actions of the corporation, so let's explore that analogy more deeply: If I attend a neighborhood get-together and chip in $10 for food, and someone at the party breaks a window, should *I* be held personally liable for it? Of course not. You go after the individuals who caused the damage, or possibly the "CEOs" of the party who organized it. You don't go after everyone who had the most remote connection to the event.
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  8. #48
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    You have suggested that individual stockholders be held liable for the actions of the corporation, so let's explore that analogy more deeply: If I attend a neighborhood get-together and chip in $10 for food, and someone at the party breaks a window, should *I* be held personally liable for it? Of course not. You go after the individuals who caused the damage, or possibly the "CEOs" of the party who organized it. You don't go after everyone who had the most remote connection to the event.
    That's not what is being suggested though.

    In the discovery process of tort, the guilty/negligent (however you want to word it) are identified and those individuals are sued for their shares of ownerships, down to personal holdings.

    If the business, as a group, decides to market an unsafe product then all those who knew and still went a long with it, are wholly liable.
    The main and most significant problem with limited liability is that those that commit the tort can shield their assets.
    Last edited by Harry Guerrilla; 03-30-11 at 02:46 AM.
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  9. #49
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by ElijahGalt View Post
    Is your neighborhood get-together a person? Is a union a person? Is an association a person? In the literal sense, of course not. However, these GROUPS of people are entitled to the exact same rights enumerated in the constitution, including the right to speak.
    But why do these groups have those rights separate to their rights as individuals? If a corporation exercises it's right to free speech, you're gonna get an individual who belongs to the corporation making the actual speech, if a corporation enters into a contract, it's gonna be an individuals signature on the paper, I admit this isn't my forte of knowledge, but isn't corporate personhood redundant considering it's a collection of individuals with rights?
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  10. #50
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    Re: Corporate Personhood

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    I just want to observe the irony that we have three left-wingers here arguing in favor of corporate welfare.
    Count this left winger in with the libertarians on this. It is so intuitive to me that those that invest in an endeavor should be aware of and support the actions of the company and accept the consequences for their actions just like everyone else. This special protection is an invitation to unethical behavior. Enron and the recent wall street fiasco come to mind on a large scale.
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