View Poll Results: What is more important?

Voters
61. You may not vote on this poll
  • A balanced budget (no growth in debt)

    53 86.89%
  • Tax cuts

    8 13.11%
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Thread: Tax cuts or balance budget

  1. #61
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Now to make it more specific to you.

    The simple answer - - - If faced with a hypothetical situation where we can either have A) Tax cuts from the current point with a guarantee of an unbalanced budget or B) Tax’s increases from the current point with a guarantee of a balanced budget then my option would be B.

    The complex answer - - - Such a hypothetical is not a reality, there is no only two potential answers and the results of those answers are not unquestionably preordained. It also ignores the human factor that it is entirely possible to raise taxes and still have an unbalanced budget due to politicians simply using the fact that there are more taxes as a justification for passing more and more spending. It also provides additional political fodder to forgo cutting spending by stating that tax increases will be the solution. It is a rather hollow and partisan question not aimed at being honest or having real discourse but simply trying to play “gotcha” by presenting an unrealistic and fictitious scenario as a means to “catch” conservatives in a pathetic and ridiculous ploy.

    My personal view has been stated a number of times on this forum, and if we’re talking about unrealistic things then I’d much rather it than the other unrealistic options presented here. That view is to have a 2.5% sales tax (Medicine, food, and lodging exempt) that is tied to a 5% yearly decrease in the budget and whose revenue goes specifically to paying down the debt and is unable to be used to fund any other government program. If the budget fails to be cut by 5% and actually remain under that then the 2% tax is removed from the books the start of the next fiscal year. Once our debt is paid off the tax would also sunset.

    I generally am not a big fan of taxes. However, I do understand at times they have their use. The issue is rarely does it seem to be used for anything other than justification for more and more and more spending and growth. I would happily endure a 2.5% sales tax on almost everything I purchase for 5 years in exchange for the removal of the debt and a 25% cut in the Federal Budget. I would not stand a 1% increase however if the federal government refuses to significantly cut their own bloated and out of control spending or if they simply use it as a justification to pass more entitlement programs.

    Digsbe is right. There IS a need for taxation. Its ridiculous to assume otherwise. However, taxes should be a mechanism of financing necessary government functions not instituting "fairness", make people who've been lucky or blessed help those that are less fortunante, punishment, or other such things. While there is definitely such a thing as undertaxation, so too is there over taxation as well as the societal message that is sent and inbred in people if you allow the tax brackets to be significantly skewed where a few people are supporting the entire system yet at the same time are being demonized as greedy do nothings who need to have more taken from them.

  2. #62
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we are in the mess we are in to no small part because we have consumed to the hilt; leveraging everything we have in order to afford the latest big-screen television. why in the world would we wish to continue to encourage this kind of behavior?
    Our economy is a capitalistic, consumption based economy... It's not simply an issue of personal choice, or individual behaviour. The entire economy encourages consumption, and the entire economy engages in it. Individual market choice is the foundation of Capitalism.

    The market produces the product and free agents buy it... it's a billion dollar industry. Even the dumbest, most impractical sh*t has made people millionaires in America...

    Pet Rock That Made Man A Multi-Millionaire In 6 Months Lives On | Pets Do

    4 Million "Snuggies" sold... I have officially lost faith in humanity, page 2

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    This is a bit like asking "What's better - cookie crumbs or the whole cookie?"

    Of course the balanced budget is more important. With option A, you not only get the tax cuts, but also get to add spending cuts, reduced government, and everything else that goes along with creating a balanced budget.

  4. #64
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    If you had to pick one or the other, which one is more important?
    The Reps burning need to balance the budget isn't about the economy. It's about cutting more jobs, raising the number of unemployed, and making Obama look bad, so bad he'll lose the election. Just more dirty politics.

    Most politicians will do or say anything to get elected or reelected, especially those who live and breath politics, and have no other interests.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Accidentally voted tax cuts, but balanced budget.
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
    Libertarian/Conservative/Christian Beliefs

  6. #66
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    There is a lot going on for such a simple question. First is the concept of the balanced budget. Now, any one who knows me here knows that I strongly believe we have to act, and act soon(if not now...I say soon since I would delay heavy cutting till the economy recovers, 1 to 2 years) on reducing the deficit. However, a small amount of deficit spending is sustainable forever. GDP growth turns a small deficit into no problem. However, I do think we need to get to a balanced budget at least for awhile to let the GDP growth do it's thing with our current debt.

    Lower taxes do, to an extent, stimulate growth. While, contrary to the belief of some, not enough to make up for the revenue loss if you are only looking at revenue, it does build for the future which is important. It is also possible to cut taxes and reduce spending. However...

    ...In the short term, doing both would have devastating effects on the economy. Federal spending makes up a huge fraction of GDP. I did the math in another thread I cannot find right now, and was actually shocked. I want to say maybe 10 %, but do not hold me to that number. Significantly reducing federal spending enough to both make a difference, and make up for revenue loss could very easily put us right back in a recession.

    So what do I favor? Leave tax rates alone for now. Cut spending, first by forcing federal programs(this includes the military and every other federal program) to be more efficient. Cut budgets across the board every other year. The year you do not cut, you freeze them. A large, bipartisan commission looks at ways to make federal programs more efficient and save money. The military goes through another round of Base Closure commissions, looking for bases that can be closed without reducing readiness(this can be done and has been done).

    Don't play politics with let's eliminate this program or that, since that will not get anything done. Democrats will cut republican programs, republicans will cut democrat programs, nothing will ever get through the senate, and the problem won't be fixed. Worry about what programs we do not need at all down the road.

    Once the deficit is taken care of, we can look at lowering taxes and enjoying the benefits of higher growth, part of which is making the debt look smaller every year. The thing to remember though is that this is going to take time, probably a significant amount of time. Solving the deficit is not so simple as saying "cut spending, it's easy". It's not, and there will be significant repercussions that the same people saying "it's easy" will then bitch about.

    Right now, neither party is serious about deficit reduction. Our politicians are playing games with the issue, but neither is actually working to solve it. If you create a bill you know will never get signed, you have done nothing to solve the problem. If you are not getting with the other party and working out what you can both agree on, you are a part of the problem, not the solution. I hate with a passion cynicism in politics. It's why I have the quote I have in my sig. However, on the subject of solving the deficit, I fear I am as cynical as any one.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #67
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    If you had to pick one or the other, which one is more important?
    I would say tax cuts and then work at balancing the budget to adjust to those tax cuts.
    Realistically we can demand our elected officials to cut taxes and balance the budget, it is not a either or. Either way stuff will have to be cut regardless if the budget is balanced and or if tax cuts are given.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  8. #68
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    I’ll stay in the box of the thread.
    I voted ‘a balanced budget (no growth in debt).’

    I say, maybe we need a constitutional amendment requiring a balanced budget.
    1. Neither Congress nor the President can override
    2. All off budget items are included in the budget
    3. Budget must be balanced by eliminating expenditures and no by raising taxes
    4. No exception can be made for emergency
    'The whole universe is going to die!'

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    I will vote C.--Tax Cuts--Balanced Budget--Prosperity--Destroying Liberalism


    Federal Tax Revenue AFTER......The Reagan Tax Cuts




    Federal Tax Revenue AFTER.......The Bush Tax Cuts


    We The People were given a bigger allowance........and Tax Revenue increased....defying all laws of liberal economics.

    The Democrat Party and its universal solution of more taxes and more regulation is killing this country......
    .
    .
    .
    .

  10. #70
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    nor will repeating right wing talking points based simply upon faith and belief.
    i've demonstrated to you several times the futility of raising rates hoping to get a static increase in revenue. i have even demonstrated to you the high likelihood that raising rates will see you get little to no revenue.

    people seek to avoid a high tax burden. those with the most means have the most ability. what about those basic facts is a right wing talking point?

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