View Poll Results: What is more important?

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  • A balanced budget (no growth in debt)

    53 86.89%
  • Tax cuts

    8 13.11%
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Thread: Tax cuts or balance budget

  1. #41
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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    What's special is that he pushed the cuts and that it increased revenues.
    This is why I am asking, revenues tend to increase over time as the economy expands, regardless of tax policy (again, on average, we do have recessions from time to time)

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    More revenue came in than otherwise would have. Tax revenues stay more constant than always increasing. As a percentage.
    So, you are saying a higher percentage of taxes were paid, compared to GDP, than in earlier times?

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    GDP & Tax, on average, has a history of increasing year to year no matter what the tax policy is. Why is Bush's tax policy special when it likely would have happened anyway?
    Just because an account increases, it doesn't mean it's also NOT experiencing a loss... Its crucial to analyze the information in ratios; compare previous years to this year, compare growth ratios, compare revenue growth/loss ratios each year. Do not simply look at the numbers and compare them. I am not saying this is what people are doing, but I have seen many people post numbers on these forums and try to make an argument, and it's not a good argument.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    This is why I am asking, revenues tend to increase over time as the economy expands, regardless of tax policy (again, on average, we do have recessions from time to time)



    So, you are saying a higher percentage of taxes were paid, compared to GDP, than in earlier times?
    Revenues don't tend to increase by percentage of GDP. They tend to be a constant percent of the GDP. So if you can increase the GDP you will collect 18 % of the additional monies.

    There's lots of ways this can happen. It can happen by cutting taxes. It can happen by raising taxes. It can happen by invention or favorable weather.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    I lean Conservative and I'll answer: You have to do both at the same time. Spending is way out of control. It needs to be be reduced and reduced drastically. I would use the FY 2008 budget as a base line and make reduction from there. Taxes, especially business taxes are way too high. They need to come down and come down fast. Remember Government does not create jobs, private businesses do. I say get the government out of the way and turn the genius of the American business loose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Good luck getting a straight answer from any conservatives here. I've asked this question before, and most of them resent the whole premise of government paying for the services it provides.
    I came into this world fighting, screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I have no problem going out the same way.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Balanced budget, of course.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    If people have to pay fewer taxes it can spur them to invest more and be more productive.
    Why didn't it, then? Why did they continue to outsource and not re-invest in America if that is the case?

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac
    Our tax revenues increased as a result of the tax cuts. 2004 brought in more than 2003. 2005 more than 2004. We spent a whole lot of money on wars which added to our deficit. Our tax revenues are really up to our economy more than anything.
    These two statement are contradictory. First you attribute it to the tax cuts then say it has more to do with the economy than anything. Which is it?

    I personally don't see any evidence that Bush's tax cuts did anything you claim, in theory or in reality.

    Our economy didn't really "grow" either, we didn't begin producing more. If anything speculation increased tremendously during that period, not actual growth. GDP is a poor reflection of economic reality in my opinion, especially in America. How can 70% of an economy be based on consumption? If people increase consumption, which therefore "grows" the economy, how is that a good thing?

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    As bad as our politicians are, at least we have a law that they must balance the budget.I have no doubt that we would owe many trillions of dollars otherwise.
    The problem with that it is impossible to highly undesirable to balance a budget in a recession. In a recession, revenues fall dramatically (almost $.5T in this recession), while cutting expenditures in a recession does nothing to help, and in fact further slows the economy.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by sazerac View Post
    Revenues don't tend to increase by percentage of GDP. They tend to be a constant percent of the GDP. So if you can increase the GDP you will collect 18 % of the additional monies.

    There's lots of ways this can happen. It can happen by cutting taxes. It can happen by raising taxes. It can happen by invention or favorable weather.
    Is there evidence that GDP increases were over and above what they would have been under the old tax laws?

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by SheWolf View Post
    If you had to pick one or the other, which one is more important?
    I haven't read the rest of this thread, but I'd take a different option.

    I favor more efficient government spending.

    We can't have tax cuts because the government needs revenue to operate. It just does. It needs to do it for the military, for transportation infrastructure, for the regulation of safe commerce, for public education, and for law enforcement.

    However, demanding a balanced budget is pretty pie-in-the-sky. Our government operating via debt is the norm. And people invest in our national debt because our government is an extremely stable entity for investment. On the other hand, that's not the same as operating on a deficit, and the larger our deficit is the more we will have to pay back our national debt.

    So what we need to do is use our debt more selectively and efficiently. And we need to start spending on government programs that wil increase the economy. One way to do this is to do less military spending and instead use that money to increase and maintain our transportation infrastructure. This is important because our economy depends on commerce and commerce depends on transportation routes for goods and services to flow. I also heard that every $1 spent on transportation infrastructure gives us a return of $1.50.

    So while we definitely need to bring government spending under control, we also need to focus that government spending on things that will increase our economy. Instead of looking at it as government spending it should instead be looked at as government investments and we should invest in those things that will give the people of the U.S. a return on those investments.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

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    Re: Tax cuts or balance budget

    Quote Originally Posted by March View Post
    Why didn't it, then? Why did they continue to outsource and not re-invest in America if that is the case?



    These two statement are contradictory. First you attribute it to the tax cuts then say it has more to do with the economy than anything. Which is it?

    I personally don't see any evidence that Bush's tax cuts did anything you claim, in theory or in reality.

    Our economy didn't really "grow" either, we didn't begin producing more. If anything speculation increased tremendously during that period, not actual growth. GDP is a poor reflection of economic reality in my opinion, especially in America. How can 70% of an economy be based on consumption? If people increase consumption, which therefore "grows" the economy, how is that a good thing?
    We did see an increase in total revenue after the tax cuts. It's just a fact. It didn't mean the economy would go gangbusters or that we would't go to war or that businesses would stop outsourcing.

    GDP is very important in cosidering the well being of an economy.

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